Other support program

hi at all, i’m italian and i don’t speak english so good, i hope you understand my question

i use the form 1+ for print a jewelry model but i’m not satisfied about the support making of preform software because many times the print are bad or i can’t use the print for a silicon mold because the support leave trace in the model

I wanted to know if anybody know an other software, maybe for the jewellery, for make support for replace preform

thank you to everybody

some use b9 creator or autodesk meshmixer

thank you for your answer

b9 creator it’s a good program but when i made the support i don’t understand if i make a mistake or not
in the preform software the critical area are red while in b9 creator i can put one support and for the program it’s ok

autodesk meshmixer instead i don’t understand how can make support

Don’t trust the red coloring, it often indicates areas that are supported OK

I almost always do the supports manually in the PreForm software
First generate automatic supports and then go to edit mode to adjust them.
Otherwise you might consider doing it in your 3D software as a part of your mesh if you want more control. Automatic methods can only go so far.

sorry but if i don’t trust of the red coloring how i can understand when i put the right supports?
the are same rules or it’s ony experience ?

I’ve had situations where there is a support on the starting point of the object (meaning the lowest point) and it shows the whole bottom as red and doesn’t change no matter how many supports you add there.
Also, in my experience you can get away with fewer supports than what the automatic system generates, and you can put them in better places so that they are easier to remove and easier to clean the print afterwards.

The red coloring is to be taken as somewhat of a suggestion, if you see something red, then check it and consider if the area actually needs more support or not.

the type of resin can change the supports structure? i use the black resin but maybe an other type of resin needs less supports of mine.
do you know other resin, a different brand also, better of mine ?

As far as I know the resin will not change the support structure

The Formlabs resin is the best resin to use with the Form1 3D printer–that is due to the settings being specifically designed for those materials. I’ve tested some other resins and you have to switch material settings to try and find one that works best and in some cases there isn’t a setting that will get as good of results as what you would get with the Formlabs resin.

Yeah, it does change. Say you had an object setup for Black, opened it up again and then switched it to use Flexible - your supports will be removed.

Something I have found pretty handy it to not autogenerate any supports at all, but instead, select the object and choose edit selected in the support editor. Once I’m in edit mode, I adjust the point slider all the way to the smallest point size allowed. I would rather have more smaller tipped supports; they are easier to remove, and they leave less of a mark on the part.

Next, I adjust the view so I’m looking at the piece straight down from the platform surface (e.g looking at it through the grid floor in Preform).
Step 1: Put a point at the closest point to the platform - this will be the first part of the model printed.
Step 2: Hit ‘pageup’ on the keyboard until the slicer move up the part and removes the point you placed. Now you can see the edges of the slice on your model, and the shape of the slice boundary. The slicer tends to have a fairly course resolution in this (reverse) slice mode, so once I see and understand the shape of the slice, at least for the early points, I’ll generally page down again to remove the slice cut, and place some points where the slice was, and in the shape of how it was sliced. The goal here is to securely support the early formation of your part - this is critical to how the rest of the part is supported.
Step 3: Keep hitting page up a couple times, then adding supports around it’s slice boundary. Pay atterntion to islands and insure you’re supporting them as well. As you get further into the part, you can hit pageup several or many times before placing new supports around the slice boundary, until you get it fully supported.

As you can imagine, a lot of it is intuition, experience, a little luck, and ultimately, art.
You’ll get the hang of it. Imagine yourself as the part, hanging on to the platform for dear life :smile:

Once you’re done and have applied your edits, look at it in the normal slicer view (orange cross sections) and walk it up the part a layer (or shift pageup for 10 layers) at a time to make sure there are not weird unsupported areas. You’ll likely iterate on the above support edits and slicer views a few times at first until you get comfortable in what’s going on.

ok ,thank you so much for your advice
now i will try to follow this

thanks again

i try with the b9 creator automatic supports,i try with the max number of support,end of support 0.2mm for no trace and i print with 25 micron of resolution.
the result is… only supports,beautiful but only supports

If you post up the .form file for us to take a closer look. For those parts, I would not bother with the B9 supports. PreForm should do a good job. Depending on how large the Vader head is, it might print better if it was shelled. As long as the geometry is good, the parts should print with minimal problems. Also, looking at the faceting, I would not bother with the .025 print settings. .050 should look great and take half the time.

now i try with the “ChristopherBarr method”, i see layer by layer and i put a supports for the islands. At first sight the model it’s ok but i must to see deeply. Regarding you say about Vader i’m with you but for this it’s only a test, the really goal it’s the other model, a jewelry model, and i need the maximum resolution but the minimum supports and they leave no trace. When the IPA make his job i will say the result

Couple things:

  • Regardless of support size, they’re gonna leave a mark. No way around that. Ideally they get cut/break off above the surface of the model, and you can sand down the remnant. Small supports tend to do that more often than large supports.

  • If it’s only a test, just print the one thing you’re testing. No need to waste resin on something else that does not need to be printed @25um.

  • That Vader head has a large sectional area, which on it’s own can be an issue because a.) it causes stress on the peel mechanism, and b.) it seems like it’s on the non-hinge side, meaning when it let’s go of the PDMS, it pops hard and really tugs quickly on the ring model. I would simply print the ring near the center front to back, and on the hinge side of the platform and see how that goes.

Also, I would reduce your support count in half at least.

the jewelry model now it’s perfect but i’ve the same problem of the supports. For make a mold the model must be without mistake and then the signs of the supports represent defects. I can print the same object with a 0,2mm supports instead a 0,4mm ? it’s possible the same winning result?

If you post up the .form file, we can take a closer look. Also pics of the failed print may help.

If you are looking for 100% perfect prints with no support marks, you may be using the wrong printer. That being said, the Form 1,1+, and am sure 2 (when I get one will) produce some of the best models I have seen for the price point. Every technology is different but it sounds like you need the results of a printer that uses a different support material. You will have to sand down the supports left behind. Even printing directly on the build tray will leave a different kind of mark. Just look at the bottom of your rafts. You will also have to account for the compression layers.

I would open a support ticket if you haven’t already.

i’m agree with you but i need to minimize the defect of the printer, i understand that every printer has an optimal utilization, and i’m knowledge that a perfect model i’ve need a expensive printer but i must know the limit of the printer and if the problem it’s my wrong use, it’s my inexperience or it’s the printer. For many use the printer it’s excellent but i must understand the really useful for my job.

here the file :smile:
i upload the stl file because the form file it’s too big
i put two photos also, the model it’s ok but it has many support and i don’t make a mold with this because the trace damages the plot of the object
now i try without supports in the ball, the real model, the other are channels for production

pallina 8 mod.stl (3.6 MB)

I spent a little time with your stl file. I almost went ahead and printed but I found more file problems that made me stop and report back to you.

If you search layer by layer you will see support dots (in edit mode) that do not belong there. This is due to the geometry not being watertight / clean. This is one of the reasons you have an excessive amounts of supports that preform thinks you need. I had removed all the supports that I do not feel need to be there. The picture shows where supports should be. I was going to add them but that would add un-needed supports once the model is fixed. These should not cause a failure 100% of the time but since you are having problems, I wanted to point them out.

Yeah, you shouldn’t need as many supports–but the ball thing in the middle will be a problem because of the detail on it that will end up with many points that aren’t supported

I hacked around with it. Try the attached .form - it’s @100um. Print it at that resolution first, and if it’s cool, bump it up to 50, then do 25. Pretty sure with this form, 100 might be fine, and definitely 50 will be. I can’t see where 25um will be any better really.

filezipped.form (1.8 MB)
IMPORTANT: You’ll need to rename the file to filezipped.zip, then extract the .form file within it.

@Formlabs1 Yo, what’s up with the ridiculously small upload file size allowance in the Forum? I swear I yelled about this already. Tap, Tap, anyone home? The .form above is ONLY 7.2MB and is too big to upload, but compresses 74% to just 1.8MB. Just because your format is crazily inefficient, don’t penalize your users trying to help each other… Jeez. Why not just automagically compress .form files on upload and decompress on download if you’re that worried about disk usage? You can make that happen transparently on the fly if you’re using Apache. You are using Apache, right? sigh.