Why the 25% price increase? because of the change in bag to bag with cap? What would be not significant for the amount FL will order.
They would have to adjust their fill line, but considering the issues people have with the existing bag, it would be an investment in the existing and future costumers. It’s cheaper to move empty bags, compared to jugs (you move less air). The bags are available already, they just have to find the right supplier.
It will take around 6 months to a year to drastically adjust your fill line, most bag suppliers only fill liquids, so you have to have your own fill line or outsource that part.
It will add to the price of the bag, but i don’t see a 25% jump in price if you ask me…
This has just dropped, on minute 7 you can see the filling method and confirm that at least for non industrial >100,000 USD systems they are choosing to lock in users with powder cards. Or have them pay an extra to “liberate” the machine. Curious to know if the 10KG powder bags from Raise 3d came from the exact same supplier
Hi all, small update from the Formlabs team. We have tested some of the bag clip style spout devices, but the current bag material does not seem to be compatible with that type of solution. We have some more options that will be tested in the next 2 weeks. Not promising that any of them are THE ONE, but we are investing in this problem.
@Skylink have you had the chance to test your tube design?
Please note that we just ran out of powder that was stored in the bottles.
My research was anticipating the new bulk supply that we’re negotiating with the retailer.
I’ve currently printed a first prototype, but I’d like to improve the nozzle with the valve.
I was thinking of redesigning it by creating a plate to replace the original one, creating a threaded hole (or better yet, with ball springs for a quicker operation) to which I can connect the tube (this way I’ll keep the current rubber cap and a surface without any bulky elements).
This way, I’ll have a more stable attachment because when the 10kg bag is turned upside down, the tube will need to be stable and securely attached.
But right now, I don’t have time to dedicate to development.
If it can be of any “help”, I uploaded the prototype files in a previous message or I can send you the CAD files (in STP format).
The “ONE” solution you already had… It feels like a bad joke that a Formlabs Product Manager is asking a client to develop a solution for a problem they themselves created, especially when the fix is straightforward.
My main issue with these “garbage bags” is the packaging changes constantly.
We ordered three times and each time the box was a different size.
They keep getting shorter and wider. I had to move some equipment as the designated stowing zone for PA12 was no longer able to accommodate the boxes. Not impressed.
I much preferred the “white” bags over these “grey’ ones.
@Formlabs Could you please provide an update on this issue, which has been ongoing for some time now?
I received a powder bag last week and nearly contaminated the Sift with plastic while filling it. This is a frustrating situation with a simple fix that just needs to be implemented by Formlabs.
I’ve opened up probably my 20th or so bag of powder just now and I’m so frustrated I had to finally post about it.
I’d like to start by saying that I understand that there are humans behind screen names here, and I’m sure no one intended for the situation to be this terrible. Nothing that I say here is intended to be a personal attack or insult or anything of the sort.
But, as someone whose business and sole source of income relies on a Fuse 1 setup that has been borderline unacceptably fragile on the hardware side of things and left me stranded on MULTIPLE occasions: these bags are the single worst experience of the entire Fuse ecosystem by a country mile, and I’ve had many other terrible experiences with it. Unless and until the bag is completely gone, I will do everything possible to make it clear to anyone I know of that might be interested in a Fuse 1 system that the entire product line should be avoided at all costs.
And no, I’m not kidding. This ecosystem has given me countless headaches, but NONE of them compare to the FRUSTRATION AND SHOUTING AND ABSOLUTE SELF LOATHING that trying to empty a $1000 BAG OF POWDER INTO A SIMPLE FUNNEL with minimal waste/spilling/headache causes.
Now, I’ve had my machine for years, but if I could do it all again, I would have demanded a refund on every piece of Fuse 1 hardware I purchased the first time I received a bag of this powder and learned just exactly how terrible the experience would be, and how I’d have to be reminded of how fundamentally user-unfriendly this ecosystem is every time I have to fill my sift. Not to mention having to pay for a funnel, and being forced to order more powder per shipment without any discount and discarding a significant portion of it with the packaging compared to the old methods.
Again, none of this is personal, but this bag situation has been the largest contributor to my genuine hate for my entire Formlabs setup for well over a year now. I’m not convinced that anyone at Formlabs even attempted any kind of end user testing with this packaging because it is so fundamentally unacceptable.
At this point, just about the only thing that would make the situation approach “okay” would be if we all got open material mode at no charge to source our own powder. Even if it was shipped in ziploc bags or mid-2000s blister packaging, it would be a welcome reprieve from every time we have to open one of these ridiculous packages.
I’m glad you wrote that. My opinion is the same down to the last word. I don’t understand how they decided to destroy such a friendly ecosystem ala apple for the sake of a few saved dollars.
I had significant orange peel right before my laser died (another complete saga of a mess).
Since then I’ve had very mild orange peel on occasion that seems to have been caused by the vast increase in contamination that trying to use these bags has introduced. There’s very clearly visible contaminants in the areas of prints affected by orange peel that didn’t happen when using the bottles.
Damn this is intense. I hope My laser doesn’t die soon. Contaminants here are also an issue and I am with you 100% on the fact they ramped up since the bags introduction.
As for the orange peel, a little increase to surface armor helps, form 820 to 933.
Yea I agree…and the system being very “fragile” for someone doing production parts with the high cost per part requirement due to these issues was already borderline prior to the “bags”.
Now with the bags and the unavoidable micro fiber making its way in from the bag…from each fill puts it over the edge of return on production running larger parts. It was hard to justify the cost when filling a chamber with 100 or more smaller parts and even harder when pricing a chamber of less than 20 larger units or less…but now I have to factor in that I will absolutely have a micro fiber or hair in at least one part in each chamber I run. So I have to factor in that scraped part per cost now as well.
I will say…that I have minimized waste and gotten pretty good system for filling with these bags though…
It involves me draining the Fresh hopper down ALL THE WAY…as much as possible by looking down there with a flash light and filling the two cartridges I have. Of course I’m nervous just leaning over with that fresh hopper hatch open that I’m gonna add to the possibility of adding dust or lint into there as I watch…
I then dump both those in the Fuse.
Then I sit the bag with its bottom edge over the grate and slit it with a razor blade in an X…carefull on those cuts so that you don’t slice a piece of the bag/foil in there…but then I let it drain while working that hole and the bag. Once filled it will stop flowing from the pile up and I then fill two more cartridges up to empty the hopper enough to allow the rest of the bag to go in.
Of course it is nearly impossible to wipe or remove any fiber, dust or lint from the bag prior to this, especially the bottom as it was shipped in a cardboard box… Then, as described with this technique the hatch is open to the environment…with your hands, arms and face looking down it for way too long. It’s just impossible to not get foreign particulates to make their way into the fresh hopper now and it had absolutely led to at least one or two flawed parts per chamber that I run now.
FYI…the “flap/spout” they provided as an answer is useless…
But totally agree…this was the worst decision made in an already very vulnerable system.
The jugs were convenient for sure, but I have not had any issues with stray plastic in the 12 or so bags I’ve opened. Is the plastic you see a result of cutting the bag or is it stay particles mixed in with the powder?
In my case, I can’t say for sure what the contaminants are or how they enter the powder. They could be present in the bag itself before I ever open it, but it’s equally possible that they are entering due to the process of opening the bag, or the herculean struggle of trying to get the powder from the bag into the sift funnel. The exact source of the contamination is not as important to me as the end user as the fact that it happens enough that the failure rate of parts is unacceptable and it was never this way when using the jugs. The point is that the bags were a solution in search of a problem that didn’t exist, and the solution introduced is the worst aspect of the Fuse ecosystem.
Bottles are the best solution.
Nothing else to say.
With 3 kg and a rigid structure, they contain the right amount of powder for refilling, are practical, quick, and significantly reduce the possibility of introducing contaminants.
A 5 kg version might also be adequate.
I just ordered another 10 kg of PA12, although I’d like to buy at least 50, knowing they’ll arrive in the “cursed” bags.
I’ll continue like this, waiting for Formlabs to change the system.
