Hello to everybody.
My name is Andrey, I’m from Latvia and I use Form2 from August. Our company manufactures model truck kits in scale 1/24. As you can see, we need in accurate parts because in other case there will be difficulties with assembling of our kits.
Few days ago I found one constant problem with “rod-like” parts. Printer shrunk them; difference in diameter from 0.2 to 0.3 mm.
Here are couple examples:
https://formlabs.com/dashboard/shared/#shared/8c2f7cf5-7b96-4ed4-8d35-2d1f3fc0a2ce tube from this print.
For tube from the first print this difference is about 16%(!!) (part must be 1.5 mm in reality it was 1.25). Same thing for supports from second print. From 1.5 mm to 1.25.
Ok, it’s not big problem for me to keep in mind this difference and to scale my 3D models, but I wanted to share this problem with Formlabs.
I opened the ticket, describe the problem, send them links to prints and after 24 hours got GREAT reply!
“Contact with your reseller” they said.
Now may I ask you - why? Who manufacture printers you or reseller? Who can find and fix this bug? Reseller? Or maybe manufacturer?
And keeping in mind this reaction, what I have to expect when the problem will be bigger?
Where any other dimensions different? It seems weird that the diameter would change.
I can tell you though, those pipes need better orientation and support, some of the parts have an angle that’s too shallow–closer to 45-degrees is best. Also, since they’re thin, if you don’t have enough supports to stabilize them then they will flex as it goes through the layer separation process and the layers won’t line up as well.
Difference at diameter only. No matter what orientation parts have - the difference is the same.
https://formlabs.com/dashboard/shared/#shared/4fa28851-0ee5-4269-895f-29ed653e6016 air receivers. Diameter of 3D models - 10.2 mm. Diameter of printed parts - 10 mm.
https://formlabs.com/dashboard/shared/#shared/9bb2299a-ea3b-4ab8-9dac-7524f3beead7 in 3D diameters are 1.5 and 2.0, printed part has 1.3 and 1.8.
More supports is bad decision for me, they kill my parts - too many “waves” and spoiled surfaces. Angles close to 45 degrees means a lot of sanding; sometimes I lose detailing with it.
I know decision - I just add this difference to my 3D models and results are just fine. But I thought this thing should be shared with Formlabs. Now I see that Formlabs not interested in this, because I have the second same reply - I have to contact with reseller.
P.S. I share old prints because I started to check all round parts which I printed.
The response was likely meant as “contact your reseller in order to get a replacement machine”, not in the sense of “we don’t care, go bother someone else”.
The difference in diameter is definitely not normal, i printed prototypes that were supposed to serve as receptacles for various non-printed parts, and they all turn out accurate enough everything just snaps together. Orientation notwithstanding (i see you’ve tried both vertical and horizontal, and variations in-between), your printer’s output is definitely not normal.
Contact your reseller and ask for a replacement.
I’m sorry, but did you see there anything about replacement printer?
First of all they suggested to contact with Swedish company where I didn’t purchase printer. I purchased printer at different Swedish company, which was official reseller on that moment but became sub-reseller now.
“As you purchased your printer from 3dverkstan, they are your first point of call for questions and support. They are best people to reach out to for help with troubleshooting and resolving any issues you might encounter.”
Ok, maybe for support Creative Labs sounds just like 3dverkstan.
But for gods of printing why they wrote this “If models consistently print with dimensions skewed by more than 5% in the X or Y direction, never adhere, or shift location on the build platform, reset all Fine Tuning settings to default values and send us a support ticket.” in the end of this article: https://support.formlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000013750-Fine-Tuning-the-Form-2 ?!
I don’t see there something like “contact with your reseller”.
I’ sorry, I’m very small manufacturer, but when I have same situation I NEVER suggest customers to ask resellers. My kits - my problems, nevermind where customers bought it, on our site or at our resellers.
If Formlabs suggest to open the ticket - I don’t care who’s the first point of support for Latvia - Sweden, Germany, Laos, China, or Andromeda galactic. If I use dashboard on formlabs.com, if I see ticket system here, if I see forum and knowledge base on this site, it’s logical that I open the ticket on this site but not somewhere else! If Formlabs needed to contact reseller - ok, let they do it, this is THEIR business after all.
P.S. I think I have to repeat it again. I don’t need the support. I found decision that works fine for me. All what I wanted - share this case with Formlabs; letting them to add this case to their list of bugs. That’s all. I don’t need in replacement, I just wanted to inform them. But when I see such reaction - thanks, no more such tries. Citation from ticket: "Of course I can add 0.2 mm to my drawings, but I’m curios is it normal situation?"
I don’t see there something like “contact with your reseller”.
Why would the Formlabs support article state you should contact your reseller?
You’re not making any sense. The article says you should contact the support. Support told you to contact your reseller. I’m not sure which bit is confusing.
When you buy a car from a dealership, and you’ve got problems with it, do you expect you’ll be directed to contact the factory, or the dealership?
“Of course I can add 0.2 mm to my drawings, but I’m curios is it normal situation?”
Ok, special for you step by step. Sorry for bad English.
I purchased printer at Creative Tools Sweden and this was mentioned in ticket.
I never had any deals with 3dverkstan and I don’t know who they are (they told me email (email, not open the ticket!) them about my problem).
All materials I purchase directly at Formlabs.
Support ticket system also here. On the site you can’t find anything like “contact your dealer” (in fact not mine).
I don’t need in different printer and I have no problem with this small bug.
If you like cars - ok. You have purchased a car at company Y. Manufacturer offers his own support. You found, that your car works sometimes strange. You open the ticket. Manufacturer tells you “contact company Z”. You never knew who they are, you never had deals with them. you can’t understand how they can help you with your issue, but as I understand this will be normal for you, yes?
And, finally - are you Formlabs employee? If yes, I’d like to know who you are there.
I am not a Formlabs employee, if i were, it would say so next to my username.
So, from what you wrote, disregarding the wrong-sized prints (which i still don’t think it’s a “small bug”, but a real issue), the only real issue you have is that they told you to contact 3dverkstan, instead of Creative Tools?
If you are NOT Formlabs employee, don’t waste my time.
If you can’t understand what I want to say - I have no time to try to explain you more. I think I said enough.
You do realize you’re on a public forum, right?
Ok, “soccer” continues.
Just got reply from 3dverkstan. They suggest me to ask my reseller regarding this issue (and I wasn’t surprised). Oh, that Soviet-style business, how I "miss’ it!
So, ticket was opened Thursday, February 22. Today is Monday February 26. No help, no decision, good to me that problem isn’t big and I have decision.
Dear Formlabs team, maybe you finally say something here? I have a business after all, and I print my parts not for fun.
For printers purchased through re-sellers, it is our policy that the re-seller provides support. The re-seller that you purchased the printer from should be the first point of contact, and apologies for any confusion regarding contacting other regional re-sellers.
Were you able to get in touch with the re-seller that you purchased the printer from? We have a team at Formlabs dedicated to providing training to re-sellers so that they can provide the same level of support as the Formlabs team.
Many thanks for explanation. But I still have a questions.
Why on this site we see this: “If models consistently print with dimensions skewed by more than 5% in the X or Y direction, never adhere, or shift location on the build platform, reset all Fine Tuning settings to default values and send us a support ticket.” And there is link to this page: https://support.formlabs.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
As you can see there is no any information about resellers. Maybe it’s time to make some changes in knowledge base? I wasn’t in hurry with my case, but in different situation I shall not be happy with all these delays (almost 24 hours between opening the ticket and first reply, then up 48 hours till second reply from 3dverkstan and then 5 more hours till first reaction from Creative Tools).
Why when I purchased my printer your sale manager never told me about it? I had a choice - wait for 2 weeks for direct supply from Formlabs, or purchase in Sweden for more money, but printer was in stock. As I was in hurry, I decided to purchase machine in Sweden. If I had all information then, my decision will be different. It’s very important in fact!
Now about support. When I filled out the ticket, I marked, that printer was purchased at reseller and typed the name of company: “Creative Tools”. Support suggests to email to different company in Sweden, and of course they forwarded me further (and I will do the same in such case). For whom I printed the name of company?
What’s a point in all of this moves and playing in “soccer”, if I wrote in my ticket, that I don’t need in support and I know decision? In fact I didn’t ask for help - it was feedback. I found a problem, I informed you about a problem and it will be logical if team at Formlab checks this case on their printers to find out - is this problem is just case of my machine, or this problem is system bug. I think no one reseller can perform test on dozens printers isn’t it?
P.S. Reply from Creative Tools in end of the day: “it’s normal for Formlabs printers”. I don’t think so, to be honest. Because:
citation: “ACCURACY: Formlabs printers are capable of creating accurate parts, with repeatable dimensions. This is important for designers or engineers creating assemblies or printing parts for investment casting. In recent testing, 95% of prints were measured to within 240 µm or less (0.24 mm) of the designed dimension” we see here 95% prints within dimensions, while I have 100% prints with 2 dimension less than desired and 1 dimension exactly as 3D model has.
It’s more than 48 hours gone after last reply from Creative Tools. They didn’t suggest me anything, and of course they didn’t offer any spare printers, as I expected. The last message was - it’s ok, nothing wrong with your printer.
Today is March 02. Ticket was opened February 22. 8 days and no decision and I’d say that even no reaction from the reseller. Is it normal situation, Formlabs team?
Once again - this is business tool for me, I print my models not for my fun.
This topic was automatically closed 14 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.