Apparently, my post “Form 1+ NO support NO parts NO consumables YES problem” was merged with my original post. Maybe because it sounds too provocative?
This is a re-post w/o the reference to the original discussion in case that that was the motivating factor for the relocation.
I am a surprised that my comments received so little traction, except for a few “cool-aid drinkers.”
I will state my point again: It is NOT OK for a company to “kill.” all support, parts, and consumables for a $3000+ product in less than four years after its introduction.
There are some Federal and State laws that explicitly protect end users against such abuse. Many States have a minimum mandate for a company to support their product for at least seven years!
Anyone in California that purchased Formlabs products should look into the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act.
Federal lemon laws among others may apply as well.
Formlabs is a thriving company that can easily provide spare parts for the Form1+ owners.
Assuming that this post is not censored (again), please show some backbone and support this post to send a message to the formlabs oligarchs.
By merging the two post together it pushed your original one back at the top of the category, I don’t see why you need to create yet a third post
You can see that your initial post has been viewed more than 470 times which is about average if not a bit higher than average for the category, so really if the rest of the community isn’t reacting the way you want it to maybe there’s nothing else to say for the people who usually frequent the forums (which to be fair are by default fans of the system so, bias is indeed present !)
disclamer : I’m only a lowly user of the forums, not the instigator of the “merging” of your posts and I have nothing to do with Formlabs
Duly noted and I thank you so much for your detailed explanation and the analytics.
There are people like me that want to get their substantive message across and counting the number of views or the position of the message as not even crossed my mind.
Of course, there are others that for some unknown reason to me are compelled to spew things out for the sake of the thrill of counting how many people were subjected to having to read their nonsense. (I guess).
There are quite a few of you Kool-Aid drinkers out there.
I find it sad….
This statement was not aimed at Form1 owners in general and certainly not at you
I do not mean to say the Form1 is a dumb purchase in itself, but depending ont the expectations behind that purchase it can be.
Buying a kickstarted product and expecting the same level of support than the one provided by much older, more established and solid companies (which themselves often fail to uphold the law in regard to their cients’ rights) is not a smart thing do to. Regardless of the law and other factors, new B2C companies/startups are inherently risky partners and these last 10 years have proven that they can not be relied upon. Others also have stated that their buisness is relying on their Form2 and Formlab’s support, which is about as risky as it gets.
Ivo’s vehemence may have its root in the fact that they depend on a kickstarter product for their buisness, which in my opinion is a dumb decision. Or it may “just” be that they are a private individual buying a very expensive product for a hobby and are now frustrated because it is broken and the manufacturer doesn’t help in repairing it… If I buy a smart toaster and 3 years afterwards it doesn’t work anymore, I certainly do not expect the manufacturer to send me a repair manual and access to spare parts, regardless of the law, and certainly not if the smart toaster was crownfunded. It’s okay to be angry about it though but it shouldn’t come as a surprise, and quoting local law on the internet won’t do much.
You sound like a reasonably intelligent person, so I struggle with comprehending your need to analyze my motivations and to justify why I and many others think that formlabs have changed their direction in treating their customers.
Contrary to your assessment many start-up companies especially the ones that survived have appreciated their supporters.
The way you so cynically paint the risks involved in investing in start-up’s and the expectations one should have about getting screwed should cause a pause for anyone reading this.
Moreover, yes, companies like formlabs and likes make it more difficult for “normal” companies to break through to the markets exactly for that reason because people are getting trained to expect to be screwed.
It did not use to be that way, I remember, and it has not been that long.
Sadly you, like many other people on this forum do think that you are somehow so “superior” by waiting for the more mature product to come out. With risks, there must be benefits. Formlabs clearly defined these benefits when I invested, but they apparently forgot.
By doing so, knowingly or unknowingly you are filibustering the main message with this absolute nonsense. I started a new thread because other like-minded kool-aid drinkers began to chime in. All in their effort to filibuster a legitimate discussion. Ordinary people, unlike self-absorbed narcissists, do not enjoy having to sift through much of this nonsense that is left behind.
Since you took the liberty of analyzing my motivations (completely incorrectly), I will return the favor… I bet that likes of you also think or say “they knew the risks” when a police officer or a soldier tragically lay their lives.
Likes of you make me sick!
A company that is being valued at over a billion US dollars should be able to support a product like this. Period. If they are not able to do this, for example because a supplier went out of business, they should offer a heavily discounted upgrade path to the Form 2. This is just good business practice.
While I had, so far, a very good experience with the Form 2 and Formlabs Support, hearing something like this makes me worry what will happen once they introduce a (right now, hypothetical) Form 3.
BTW, one thing I am really fed up with is the “they have been a start-up company back then, so you are not allowed to expect proper customer service/well thought out products” mindset. Also people who feel for some reason inclined to defend any decision of the company, no matter how bad, should ask themselves what they are doing this for, and if they really want to be unpaid PR staff.
Manufacturers will only produce spare parts as part of a manufacturing contract, and even then Chinese factories seem particularly reluctant to supply spares. The factories are under no obligation to retain jigs, fixtures or even tooling, nor to keep open subcontracts, once the original contracts have been fulfilled. So the only way that Formlabs could obtain spares for the Form1(+) would be to have manufactured a new batch. Given that the Form2 has superceded the Form1 this is likely a totally uneconomic exercise.
So I went to find some information on that matter because it seemed odd to me.
They went through a Series D investment round of 15m last august, at which point the company was valued at 187m. Total known funding is just a bit higher than 105m including the kickstarted campain. While this shows they are somewhat successful, such a small ammount of money (15m of Series D round) for a company that is 7 years old with several products and accessories on the market isn’t a good sign, I think they are somewhat strugling to make ends meet and yes it’s possible to have “lots of money” and still struggle… after sales can make an enormous dent in the budget and they are also trying to expand their line of products.
To offer some perspective I recently heard someone brag about what they were able to do with, and I quote : “only 100millions”… they are developing a smartphone app. Not hardware, not new tech, not an innovation, a bloody app.
The 1bn valuation is a forecast/goal made/set by investors for the last deal Formlabs made to get their 15m, it has no meaning in regard to the current value/finances of the company. In these kind of deal the investors want to make a deal with a valuation as high as possible but it does not mean the company currently has that kind of value by any means, least of them cash.
but it shouldn’t come as a surprise, and quoting local law on the internet won’t do much.