The Future of the Form 1+


#43

That isn’t necessarily correct. They could reserve inventory for warranty replacements.


#44

Exactly, so they fully comply with the terms… which everyone agreed with when they ordered the machine. Sorry, I just really don’t get why people are expecting something like 5+ years of support for these machines, while they are (market wise) already relatively old.


#45

So if the parts are being reserved, that means that anyone not under warranty could not order replacement parts. That means that anyone that purchased a Form 1 just 366 days ago can not expect a longer life than their initial year, and for people who have purchased it in the last year, there is no guarantee that they will be able to order replacement parts once their 1 year warranty is up.

To someone who just purchased this printer brand new, say a week ago, it probably doesn’t feel relatively old to them.


#46

I love my printer, now is in warranty repairing…hope they return me as a new printer, but, I don’t want/can’t buy a Form 2, why? form 1+ works perfect for my interests, I made the prints and come out really well, so why spent 4000 euros in a new printer?
About resins…if Formlabs stop making form 1 resins, why don’t let 3rd party resins do his job? It’s a way to keep us with resins for years…


#47

I sent my Form 1+ back for repair too and it came back as new.
All problems started from a broken tank. Until that resin spill, the printer worked wonderful. And now it’s working like that again. So there is nothing to worry about.


#48

what was the process you had to got through to get your Form 1+ fixed?


#49

The lifetime of the Form 1+ is certainly something on our minds, too, and we didn’t mean to come across as vague. Consumables will be available through mid-late 2018. Build platforms and bottled resin will be available until at least March 2018, and resin can be purchased in cartridge form afterwards. Resin tanks will be available until at least September 2018. After these dates, we will continue to provide consumables for as long as supplies last. We’ll give 2 months notice via the website and email prior to discontinuing any consumables.

Service for Form 1+ printers will continue uninterrupted. We will honor all outstanding warranties, which takes repair service through March 2018. After that, our support team will continue to provide troubleshooting support for out-of-warranty printers and we will continue to offer paid repairs for as long as our inventory lasts. This is our effort to be transparent and give everyone the opportunity to plan ahead.


#50

That was a good, thorough, informative response. Although I have a Form 2 and am not concerned personally, I can see where everyone else is coming from. Reminds me of how Windows stops supporting it’s old OS’s, like XP.

Looking forward to a Form 3 announcement. Thanks!


#51

I believe they still have to support the Form1+ something like 5 years after the last one sold. Polaroid ran into this when they phased out their DryJet printer. It’s a legal thing.


#52

Depends a bit on the country you ordered it and the laws that apply.
There are for example EU laws defining a minimum of 2 years and dutch laws saying you have to support and give warranty “for the expected lifetime of the product”. That’s way more than one year. :slight_smile:


#53

Here is some info on it on wiki

From what I remember Polaroid had to do 5 years on a printer (similar item classification). Guessing it would have to be the same for the Form1+

Not sure if the big wigs at FL would like to hear that, probably be better to continue to sell the F1+ and at least have a product line rather than here is our new stuff take It or leave it attitude.

Another idea if support on those machines seem too costly is to allow 3rd party distributors to sell parts for them. The distributors would then need to inventory those items which would be sales for FL.

My only real complaint is getting supplies and tanks in a timely fashion from FL. This has always been a problem for me since instead of getting one box with a bottle of resin and tank I would get 2, sometimes the delivery would be late. Shipping way over priced for the items and boxes usually look like they just came out of a football game thanks to FedEx.

Distributors would be better at moving product, offering more options in shipping.

Killing a product and product line kills the ROI (return on investment) and only leads to diminished sales and lost customers. Granted the Form1+ will eventually be outdated but only as better/cheaper products make it less competitive. All the R&D invested into the Form1 series should have been realized at this point and the product should be a money maker for them. Even discounting units to get them out in the market will draw people to the next model(s) up.


#54

Everyone who bought an FL printer knows that they are on the cutting edge of this kind of technology.
These are not like toasters you buy at a Walmart.
So to have these great expectations that it should perform and last like we expect a toaster to is wildly optimistic.


#55

There is no minimum time that a manufacturer must make parts after eol.
That’s a myth or as lawyers call it “bar law” what people in bars tell each other that the law is.


#56

They may seem cutting edge but the technology is fairly old, SLA printers have been around for a long time.
Polaroid ran into legal snags and had to continue support for quite a while after last sale. I believe it was under the consumer protection laws.


#57

If anything, I’d think that form1+ owners are in better shape than form2 owners, since there are more 3rd party options for resins, tanks, etc.


#58

A Mass company even though it sells to people buying from Europe is not subject to EU laws, other than patent protection if they have sought a worldwide patent.
There is no long arm statute than protects a European because where would you sue? Even if a french judge awarded you money how would you domesticate a french jugement in the US and against a Mass bank?
Now if FL has foreign assets in a country other than America you could collect on a judgment there.
The point is dutch laws are great in Holland but not in Mass. You bought it from Mass. Right?


#59

I bought it from the formlabs EU store. With an invoice from FL showing a UK tax number and a UK address, with a UK sales phone number, shipped from the UK to my address in NL, paid UK tax. There is even an European headquarter. So there would be no reason for me to think I’m buying directly from a US company. As far as I can see, EU laws apply.


#60

I dont practice a lot of international law (IL) I 'm just in North America. So it would seem that if you bought from an store in the EU and there are EU laws that apply to warranty items you could sue in EU’s Court of Justice. The question is that if you win a judgment against FL in the EU COJ where would you collect on the judgment?

USA by the 14th amendment full faith and credit respects the judgments of sister states; so if you win a judgment in TEXAS you can domesticate that judgment in Massachusetts and then go after assets like bank accounts the defendant has in Massachusetts. I don’t see a Massachusetts court respecting a foreign EU judgement. But again I dont do much IL.


#61

I’d imagine there would be lawsuits if they shutdown support that fast. We work in the auto industry and support parts are required for a decade after the model is sold. I’d suspect it’s less so with electronics but I will ask my cousin who is an engineer and corporate attorney, he would probably know.

The sad thing for FormLabs is that because of the cost of the machines, people could sue in small claims court for $100 without an attorney and win enough cash to upgrade to the current models for free.


#62

I’m assuming that I will be able to easily pour the resin from the cartridge into my Form 1+ tray?