PreForm Cost calculator doesnt work with OMM

a new product priced at half the price of a machine, someone could buy another sift for that price. I do understand @CARobertM position here. To sell a not fully developed “feature” because on the machine you just enter a code and boom unlocked. It doesn’t add anything to justify the price-tag.

How many users worldwide are using OMM with SLS machines? This is not a sensitive question and it will let everyone know the impact of the solution and how many users already owning a machine are willing or in need to use different materials. Because after having months deployed it should be ready, maybe very little users giving feedback?

If removing the ability to refill resin cartridges was a “misstep” then fix it. Anything less is disingenuous and an insult to your customer base.

No, I’m not interested in a 1:1 conversation. I prefer to keep this public, so future customers know exactly what to expect.

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I agree with @CARobertM on this especially now that some of the Form 3 lineup is starting to be put out to pasture. Those devices are now left without the ability to do something they could before and no future updates meaning you crippled the device somewhat.

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@CARobertM I’m happy to keep the conversation public and still invite you for a 1:1 to learn of your specific requirements and challenges.

@br4n_d0n Those devices are now left without the ability to do something they could before we have not actively diminished any functionality - can you please point out what you’re no longer able to do? (also, feel free to make a new thread to focus on that topic). We’ve committed to supporting the Form 3 & 3B till at least January 2028. We still have customers printing on the Form 2 and we continue to support them with PreForm updates.

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I have 2 universal resin cartridges that I was able to use with resins Formlabs did or still does not provide on my Form 3L and my Form 2. However, back at the end of 2023 Formlabs decided to update the firmware on all of the printers to prevent the use of these cartridges.

Formlabs seems to have done what HP was doing and they were sued for it.
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/electronics/hps-software-update-made-printers-incompatible-with-other-ink-cartridges-class-action-alleges/

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This is why i dont trust you or this company. This was pointed out just a few posts earlier and you gloss over it and pretend it didnt happen.

Every conversation i have with support lowers my opinion of this company. Between base line support giving me false information because they dont bother to research before answering, the demeaning attitude and now blatant lies.

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I understand your frustration and can appreciate where you’re coming from. However, the ability to refill resin cartridges was never a supported or advertised feature for the Form 3. We have never supported third party cartridges. Instead, we have worked on increasing the material library and reducing the price for many of our resins.

We’ll be looking at improving the OMM experience for all users including adding support for the part cost calculator.

If you or any one else has more feedback, please feel free to DM me to set up a call.

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Ive always had to manually add resin for Open Material runs I just made sure there was enough in there for the job if It had to run over night I wish the would create a open material resin container that can be assign to the print profile you use it and as long as it still has that resin in it you can keep adding to it but Ive had no issues manually adding either.

I understand, none the less you still closed a function that many people relied on.

I hope Formlabs faces a class action for this, just like HP. I am not impacted but i would participate if i was.

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Formlabs may not have officially supported it, but they went out of their way to block it. This is still no different than what HP was doing because they didn’t “officially” support third-party ink cartridges either. This is literally the same thing the only real difference being one is ink and the other resin.

@hasank the Print Settings Editor offers many settings & configuration options. What do you feel like is missing?

Please note, we do not use OMM and therefore cannot say ourselves what we are missing. I can only go by my understanding of what other users write about it. Based on what @CARobertM writes, I would recommend, for example, that functions such as camera control on the Fuse or filling level control on the Sift can be set on the devices. According to statements, it seems that functions are lost here through OMM that were not intentionally set by the user. It was purely a setting and solution idea with regard to the problems described.

Regarding the last comments and the benefits of Formlabs devices: Here I have to say that I can understand when devices or software don’t deliver what is promised, however I then have to ask the question, what was promised?
I don’t want to insinuate or accuse anyone of anything or get into heated discussions. Certain expectations have not been met and once a certain opinion has been formed about a manufacturer, it often remains so for the time being. I know this too, as we have also had bad experiences with some of them over the years.
However, I have the following subjective opinion: We use both the Fuse1+ 30W and Form3 printers from Formlabs. We were aware that both investments were closed systems. As the prices for devices, consumables and printing materials as well as the software are all available in advance, we were able to calculate different models in advance.
Accordingly, we were also able to make a comparison with competing providers who offer open systems. Nevertheless, we decided in favor of the Formlabs systems for various reasons. It was clear to us at all times that we were entering a closed ecosystem and therefore could not expect this to change.

We are a very small team of just 2 people. For cost reasons, we often started with open systems. In our experience, however, the results, properties and reliability often vary too much. It is true that the price of closed systems is predetermined in most respects. However, these (must then) make up for these arguments with quality and reliability. I think this is the case.

Yes, it’s the same basic principle as HP. The idea here is to offer the actual devices as cheaply as possible and to make a further profit margin via the consumables. But I don’t think this is fundamentally bad. Of course, this basic principle can have an extremely negative impact with correspondingly poor quality or increasing price increases, but any other business model can do this in the same way.
Specifically: As Form3 users, we don’t have the feeling that something is being deliberately taken away. We think it’s fair to support the devices until 2028. That would be about the same period of use for our printer as before.
We were aware that there is no open mode for the Form3. We knew that there was an “open cartridge” from a third-party provider, and we looked into it, but then decided against it. The price would have been lower with a different material, which is correct, but whether and how the properties can be compared is not clear.

The fact that Formlabs has now allegedly blocked this is, in my opinion, unsurprising and also somewhat understandable. After all, it was never advertised by Formlabs.
We have a paper printer from HP in the office. No, we don’t use original HP ink. If we buy cartridges from a retailer that are advertised as HP-compatible and they are then blocked by HP, I would contact the retailer for the cartridges and not complain to HP, wouldn’t I?

We know for ourselves that for some of our experiments, solutions or optimizations we do not need to expect the help of Formlabs, because we may or may not be outside the described usage relationship of Formlabs.

With the OMM, I can certainly understand dissatisfaction, fundamentally from the description that in my opinion only functions should be added here, not others blocked, removed or changed.

I know of a company here in Germany that used the OMM to be able to use a UL94V0 powder in particular. I can’t say how much work went into the development. But it seems to work.
We have no interest in an OMM. However, should we have or obtain one, I would inform myself accordingly regarding its use.
Even if this is not particularly helpful, thanks to @CARobertM for the insights so far.

And now, please don’t hit me!

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It’s worth noting that the HP class action lawsuit wasn’t for false advertisement. It was for malware and computer fraud, which the court accepted and HP settled.

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The only thing you might get out of something like this is the company either finds another workaround or they might refund you, but they have no control over what HP does in this situation and therefore are SOL.

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Yeah, my logic doesn’t match his.

If i buy a 3rd party ink cartridge that works for 2 weeks and a firmware update from HP blocks the 3rd party cartridge, its not the cartridge makers fault that HP took malicious action. I would not bother my ink cartridge manufacturer beyond letting them know that HP disabled the product. I would also happily participate in a class action lawsuit against HP in that situation.

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This isn’t a shortcoming of OMM but a feature request.

The material i am using does not recycle surface armor well. I would like to be able to factor that waste material into the cost calculator.

My bad. He said to message him with any further feedback. I wont do that so i guess i will just create a new thread for this suggestion.

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