New hybrid resin mix


#61

Sounds good monger, there seems to be a lot of variables when it comes to curing the resins, especially at different layer thicknesses.  Without access to all the settings it may not be possible to fully utilize the Form1 for other resin types.  It would be interesting to try out some combination of this resin in a B9 as well.  Thanks for testing this out!


#62

Well, both the 25 clear and 25 grey settings failed for the DC500. Trying the 50/50 mix of b9 cherry with the DC500 on 50 microns. If this doesn’t work, then this resin is just not going to work in the form1 without adjusting cure settings. It doesn’t look too good. Sorry guys.


#63

Will post some pictures when the prints cure.


#64

I think this is interesting. I don’t think Formlabs are going to let you adjust the cure settings because I believe they would be a patient violation. I noticed you keep referring to that in a bunch of your posts. This is a good effort but a futile one! Formlabs is going to have to develop the resin to work with the cure settings they have. The big question is why are you trying to develop resin for them?


#65

Hi Monger, this is a great project, thank you for sharing your results.

Have you tried your resin mixes at 100 microns? I am curious if there are similar quality improvements.


#66

Bob, I agree that it’s not in Form1s best interest to help us use 3rd party resin. They have bigger problems to worry about. Like fulfilling orders and expanding their business.

The entire goal is NOT to “develop resin for them”. We just want to be able to print castable prints. The 50/50 mix was a result of that, and it turned out to be capable of higher detailed prints that the form1 grey. You can see the results for yourself earlier in the thread. And calling that effort “futile” is just funny, since the result was clearly better prints. Whether or not it will be castable that’s still being worked on.

Also, not sure what “patient violation” is. I’m assuming that’s what some doctors may be accused of lol.


#67

ReadyGo,

I’m assuming the results will be the same on 100. However, I think this mix is better used on the 50 setting, since it was even better than on 25.


#68

Here are the results of the DC500 print and the DC500-B9CHERRY-MIX print.

You can see the DC500 print is just not good at all. The mix with the b9 cherry looks a little better, and very similar to just printing the b9 resin alone, however both look like they were printed using an FDM 3d printer and not the form1. It appears that they do not cure enough, so perhaps the DWS printers use more powerful lasers (explains the super expensive price tags) and/or longer cure times.

So in conclusion the Digital Wax resins will not work on the form1, unless the cure settings can be changed, which will not happen any time soon.

I will be casting the original MIX (50/50 Grey and Cherry) this weekend and have some hopes for it. Because today my caster did a burnout test on a small piece and said it looked promising.


#69

I maybe taking the name digital wax to literally, but is the resin able to be tooled and refined after printing?


#70

As I know, The Digital Wax uses a Blue Laser similar to the laser in blueray burner, Form 1 seems to use a GREEN laser instead, Since Blue light has more power than Green light, thus Digital Wax has a more powerful laser than the on in Form1, It is obvious that the laser in Form1 has not enough curing time and laser power to cure the resin enough, but thanks for trying! I think you may need to focus on the resin that need less light power to cure, since more cure is always better than no cure enough.


#71

The blue laser in the Digital Wax has shorter wave length than green laser, thus it can focus smaller point, creating higher details. And this DC500 is designed for higher resolution, it can generated smaller feature and I think that is why it is so expensive (though I don’t think it is 7 times better)

Maybe if you replace the laser in the form1 with a blue laser and that will not only solve the curing problem but also get higher resolution for Form1? Emh, I wonder if anyone will funding this experiment of replacing laser for form1…


#72

Lock,

The light looks green due to the orange cover.  The Form 1 uses a violet laser diode.

From the Bunnie teardown @ http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3110 and the product documentation:

“… According to the safety warning bundled with the printer, it is a 405nm, 120mW violet laser diode”


#73

Lock, replacing the laser? really? This is not an open-source project. If anyone should do any hardware modifications like that it should only be Form Labs.

I don’t think the power of the laser matters. Only the wavelength (which is the same) and the time for the cure per layer. If you can adjust the cure times, you can use any resin with the form1.

I noticed one thing that is very interesting. All the base  for even these failed prints and resins, are perfect. Why? Because looks like the base gets cured over and over again, along with some compression going on.

Technically it would be possible (by Form Labs) to apply similar compression to the printing of every layer (basically printing the same layer twice on top of each other maybe) and creating smoother, much higher resolution prints. Just a theory :wink:


#74

Monger: thanks for trying, hope you continue to share your finds. My form1 is still making its way down to Brazil so for now all I can do is cheer for you guys.


#75

Just finished casting the original 50/50 mix and the results are not great. Lots of porosity and bumpiness. Casted some test prints done on a b9 creator at the same time/same flask as control and those came out perfect.

So I think that concludes the quest for a castable resin for the form1.

I will be buying a b9 creator to use it for my jewelry needs. Hopefully form labs will step it up soon and release a castable resin for us jewelers.

You can still use the 50/50 mix to get higher resolution prints out of your form1, so at least that was a success!


#76

Hey Monger, I have really appreciated all your work towards getting better prints and a castable pattern out of the form1. While I am still frustrated that I don’t have my own form1 yet, your posts have been a massive comfort and help as I wish to use it the same way as you. Thanks very much for your time and effort : )


#77

Well I guess form1 is a great machine, but for jewelry, specifically, probably b9creator is the way to go. The form1 guys dont even show up in threads like this one. Mike Joyce seems to be more interested. At least he said “hello” in the b9 forum regarding this subject. To be honest I guess he is present in almost every thread there … which seems not to be a very common event 'round here. Don’t get me wrong: I dont mean I expect “Mike Joyce” to join our threads :wink:


#78

David and Monger,  I was wrong about the laser Form1 use, violet sound very good since it has even shorter wave length than blue light, so no need to modify the laser, that’s good news.

So, slower printing time means higher printing quality, we should suggest Form Labs to add an “Extreme Mode” to the software to at least offer a possible highest quality print to those require that but don’t care about the print time.


#79

This is incredible work, Monger. And Paulo, I do just want to say that we all look at our forums regularly and we’ve been following all of the various experiments taking place closely. We’re all super-impressed by the work that you guys have been doing. And of course, we’re working to be able to supply you with the resins that you need to get the job done.


#80

Thank you Sam! Glad to know you guys follow the threads and that you are working on the resins. Before these experiments I wasn’t sure if the form1 would be capable of fine details for jewelry, but its good to find out that it is if we have the correct resin. Hopefully you guys will release some additional resins soon that are optimized for our needs.