Form 3 vs. Form 2 Faceoff!


#21

Wow. Those prints are deeply worrisome. We’re using standard gray resin and don’t see any layer shifting or warping. Could the problem be specific to certain resins?

{Edit: our Form 3 is experiencing the same kinds of layer shifting and surface bulging on vertical and curved surfaces. FL support reports future firmware updates will address this issue.]

Our Form 3 has begun having WiFi connectivity issues after a week of stable connectivity. Comparatively, our Form 2 has had a stable connection for months. The Form 3 shows that it is on the network with a valid IP address. Preform does not see the Form 3 but does see the Form 2.

After Preform reported the Form 3 had disconnected from WiFi at some point during the night, we rebooted the printer and re-opened Preform. Preform briefly recognized the Form 3 long enough to upload a job but then reported the Form 3 had disconnected again shortly afterwards.

We have found that we can fix the problem by disabling WiFi on the Form 3 touchscreen then re-enabling it. For whatever reason, Preform then sees the Form 3.

Oddly, Preform shows the Form 2 is connected and has stayed connected to the same network the whole time. Both the Form 2 and Form 3 are in the same room but on a different floor than the computer running Preform. The Form 3’s touchscreen reports that it sees the network (and others) and that the signal strength is “good”.

Thoughts?


#22

My Form 2 has dropped the WiFi connection randomly over the last 3 years, and now the Form 3 is acting the same way. I’ve never been able to pin point a cause, but thought it may be interference from other networks, atmospherics or even cosmic rays. In the end I’ve just accepted it as one of the quirks of WiFi.


#23

@rkagerer posted his cup objects (as .form files) in the first post of this thread.
Can you, perhaps, try printing them and see what you get?

I did, in grey, and the warping is there, pretty much at same heights and in the same way he’s getting them.


#24

Those print files are actually mine :smiley: But anyway, just having a little fun in the midst of this extremely annoying prolem.

Yeah I reprinted the lens and the dome with the new firmware and there was no difference whatsoever. As a matter of fact after the update the lens completely failed during one of the prints.


#25

Ah, sorry.
Either way, i’d really like anyone claiming they don’t get warping print them, as it’s geometry-dependent.


#26

I understand, I was just providing some levity :slight_smile:


#27

Have you tried with the new firmware 3.2.3 from a couple days ago?

I`ve got a print going just now. Fingers crossed.


#28

No not yet… I’ll get it downloading right away


#29

I seem to always discover new firmware/preform releases here in the forums a few days after release by reading some random thread. Does anybody know if there is there a way to get notified?


#30

Would be helpful.


#31

According to the firmware release notes the printing improvement is for grey resin at 100 microns .


#32

You mean Preform release notes.

You could always set up a monitoring service to notify you when the Preform release notes or Firmware release notes pages change. I just set up alerts on trackly.io, which watches up to 3 pages for free.


Ability to get notified via email when there's a firmware update
#33

I really like your usage of the term warping to describe what’s happening here. I think that’s a much better descriptor than layer shift, as shift implies a discrete, but permanent change in x/y position. In all the examples I have seen, the artifacts appear to be regions of distortion or potentially erosion, but often times the outer bounds of the part are congruous, and usually the print continues on without indicating a true loss of position. It also usually seems to happen for at least several layers at a time before returning to normal, so it affects more than one layer before subsiding.


#34

“Warping” does seem to be a better description.


#35

Very useful post. The parts appear to be more clear on the Form 3 but there are issues with shift lines that could be a problem for some users.

I would like to print a small fluid reservoir (50mm height, 50 mm diameter) in clear resin on the Form 3. Can anyone on this forum do this? I will pay for the part and shipping.


#36

yo puedo


#37

Since my original post, Formlabs has released several software and firmware updates. Sifting through the release notes, I tallied improvements for:

Black: 25μm, 50μm (twice), 100μm
White: 50μm, 100μm
Tough V5: 50μm, 100μm
Dental Model: 100μm
Castable Wax: 50μm
Grey: 100μm (especially small features)

So I decided to do some fresh comparisons in Black. The items below were all printed at the same time at 50μm, using firmware rc-1.5.17-573 on the Form 3 and 1.19.15 on the Form 2, with Preform 3.4.5, and default support settings for each printer. They were cured for ~30 mins at 60°C in the Form Cure.

One thing I noticed right off the bat is Black prints seem a little overcured on the Form 3. They were very difficult to remove from the build platform, and in most cases the raft cracked, leaving bits stuck to the platform. We really need a way to adjust build platform adhesion on the Form 3. You can also see the exposure difference on the surface texture.

The really good news is, any rippling or shifting artifacts seem all but gone. The only place I noticed any, was in the front-right corner of the box on the last photo, and it was extremely faint.

I was encouraged by this, and re-ran a few of the original prints in Clear (again, at 50μm, but I updated the Form 3 firmware to 1.6.2 in between this print and the last run). Note all of the prints below are from the Form 3:

The rippling seems a little better, but is definitely still present for Clear. I hope Formlabs is close to releasing a Preform update targeting Clear, with similar fine tuning as Black and other resins have received. I’ll try again once I see that.


Form3 - let's do a proper comparison with Form2 - how good is "LFS"?
Bad prints out of brand New Form 3
#38

Thanks for the tests - without side by side its hard to tell, but it looks like the ripples are less deep?

Still very obvious but a bit shallower?


#39

I think that’s a fair description, yes.


#40

I posted a detailed, side-by-side of @larsenstephen’s ship model in Black V4 here: