Form 2 Third Party Tanks?

@JohnHue , sorry if I misunderstood; and not having actually bought a Nikon for 30 years, I just picked the brand off the top of my head; perhaps it wasn’t such a good example if they had problems, but ultimately it will be how the problems are dealt with that matters. I used a 3D Systems SLA250 for over 10 years, and it was extraordinarily reliable, although it cost my employer £110,000 when we bought it!! We then ‘moved on’ to a 3D Systems ProJet, which never did more than 10 builds without failing one way or another. By the time we ditched it, I think pretty much everything bar the frame and side panels had been replaced, and the support techs (who were brilliant!) had their own mugs in the canteen… So perhaps I am a bit sensitive to reliability. But the two Eden printers we bought from Stratasys are run 3 or 4 times a day, and have been even more reliable even than the old 250. And we won’t ever deal with 3D Systems again. Ever.

I would be as irritated with a supplier if it was a chisel or a CNC lathe. If it doesn’t work, it is worse than useless. And if it is a tool of my trade, and I can’t pay my mortgage or feed my starving children because of its failure to work, I am going to get pretty hacked off, pretty rapidly.

Looking forward to having a working Printer soon. Please. Thank you.

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Because thats what I ordered, and in their own words they are working on the problem but allowed those things to go up for sale anyway. I still have the REQUIREMENT for those materials, thats WHY i have the printer and thats WHY I made the order before they put up a delay notice. Jesus.

You’re not making any sense. You do not have, today, any resins that can’t be used with the tanks you have, today. Because the resins that require the LT tanks have not shipped yet. You don’t have a problem.

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In over 4 years, that had happened to me only twice: Once when I was just beginning, and another time when I was trying to figure how to use Nylon filament.

I know everyone likes to bash FDM, but it’s a lot simpler and more reliable than what we’re doing here. Sure it doesn’t even approach the output quality, but it produces good solid parts every time.

I have a need for the things I ordered, and have been advised the things i already have in my possession may wear down my current trays. So yeah I still have a problem, thanks for the input,Steve. But as Themedulla has pointed out there is an alternative and Im probably going to have to fall back on that and some third party resins till Formlabs getis their stuff situated. Till then I have an order in limbo for over a month.

I placed my order for Rigid and Grey Pro resins on the day they became available in the store. These are the only resins that require the LT tank. The ship date on my order is March 19. Are you saying that you already have, in your possession, cartridges of Rigid and Grey Pro? If not, then you do not have a problem.

Steve, Maybe there’s a language barrier here. I did not find out about any additional delays till well after my order was placed and said delays seem to be getting longer and due to Formlabs OWN admission, they are having problems with THEIR formulation and production. So I am now without the things I have Ordered. I’m not sure how to clarify that any more. And the tough resin I have is the only current alternative I have but I have been told to hold off till the new trays arrive because it will likely wear down the current one quicker than the standard gray ive done preliminary prints with. Is that good enough? is that a thorough enough? The problem is I have a list of things I need to make, and profits I need to start seeing, and an investment of $4500 , something not easily attainable for someone of my social class, maybe thats pocket change for you, that isn’t in use till I have the materials I need in hand. Thats my problem.

It seems that you were given different information that many here have. Tough resin should not wear out a regular vat any quicker than other standard or functional resins that are able to be used on a Form 1+ as well as a Form 2. If it did, the Form 1+ owners would not be able to use it. I have used V1, 2,3 in a Form 1+. I just haven’t had a need purchase more so I haven’t used V4 yet.

Did you get this information about Tough from Formlabs or a reseller?

FWIW, all resins will wear down your vat. It doesn’t matter which resin nor which vat. Some resins will degrade PDMS quicker then others. That is why FL puts a life expectancy on the vats. I have printed on some messed up looking PDMS layers.

I would just print what you need with Tough and IF the vat doesn’t last the expected ~2L, open a support ticket and see what FL can do to assist while you wait for the new vats to show up.

I have edited this as I clearly said “ruin” and it was wrong. The standard and functional edit was done as I believe the dental may actually wear the PDMS layer quicker. I don’t have a Form 2 nor am I a dentist so I have 0 experience with the dental resins.
:roll_eyes:

Again, the LT tanks are new. All current resins work fine with the existing tanks. I’ve had my Form 2 for years and have printed many liters of tough using the existing tanks without any issue. I’ve also printed in white, grey, black, clear, durable and flexible, all with the existing tanks. The LT tanks are in no way necessary for any of these resins.

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I didnt say ruin and neither did they. Just wear down faster. And looking at the number of runs Im expecting to have immediate issues and really cant afford to spend that much more on trays if they’re going to fail at 20x the rate of the LT.

I will gladly go and edit my previous post and change not ruin to wear out faster.

I believe you are looking at this the wrong way. They don’t wear down faster. The new tanks last longer. The original tanks are the base line not the deviation.

Good luck with your project.

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The only misunderstanding here is that you based your calculations on the LT tank, and it was JUST released and not widely available yet (I just recieved mine and so did others, but some people are still waiting). It’s a new product and they are running into production issues as is common with new stuff in small companies, there’s ground to be unhappy but not to make such a fuss as you are making it now. There is absolutely nothing nefarious going on regarding accessories longevity or resin compatibility, believe me if there was ground for such claims you’d be able to read about it here, people aren’t shy on shouting at Formlabs… but there isn’tanything the scale of your post on this forum.

There is no language barrier with anyone, you seem however to be hell bent on blaming Formlabs for your own misunderstanding of their products lineup (however clear or unclear it is to a newcomer) and for the fact that you didn’t research our purchase (-> finding about the delays well after your order while it has been communicated openly by formlabs through email, here on the forums, and the resellers were aware of everything at least where I live)… If these 4500$ are such a huge investment for you (which is perfectly alright, it is for a lot of people here), why is it you seem to not know anything about the product you bought apart from what’s on the front page of the website ?

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Now that we have cleared up the original poster’s issue, the issue of resin without the proper tank is now real for me!

I ordered Grey Pro Jan 16th as well as two Resin Tank LT’s on Jan 16th. I have received the resin but still no resin tank. So now I have resin that I cannot use (per Marcin’s post I am not going to waste a PDMS resin tank on 50-200 layers of printing). I understand a backorder and production issues on something like the Form Cure or Form Wash, but this tank should be more straightforward. It is a great tank, I love the two that I have and need more!!

The only people indicating some nefarity are people responding with their own misconstrued reactions to my concerns. Please try to separate their responses and me trying to ward their paranoia off as though it were some attack on the company.

I asked about third party products, delays have actually increased since purchase through the company’s own admission and as Frew had to point out there is reason to not use certain resins I now have in my possession due to their own admission as well, its not paranoia or blame, its just facts. I’m not sure why you and the other are continuously insinuating otherwise. Ive been pointed to a third party as well to try out their tanks, but , low and behold their delays are substantial as well. Oh well, I guess Ill have to wait.

I do have concern is if any increase of delay continues , or if it will become a constant. But that will be seen later. If I seem frustrated its not with Formlabs, theyve been quite helpful, its been with repeatedly being confronted with things like this

When I am in fact, not. I know stating facts can be a negative, but it doesn’t mean Im trying to drag a well developed 3d printer company through the mud with a pole hook.

Maybe I actually did do my research and this was just one of those unforeseen things that clearly other people didn’t know about because it was a relatively new product to existing owners but not clearly new to the people buying it after the fact ? And even to previous owners because Frew had to mention here for those who were existing customers and unaware of the situation? Maybe having to answer comments like that which immediately paint me as some podunk backwoods bootlegger with a faulty still and methanol poisioning might be what sours my demeanor?

Thanks,…

Anyway, looks like tanks should be on their way. Formlabs support has been very helpful, and so have some people here, thanks again themedulla for the zvat link earlier!

Yeah- I get that you, like nearly everyone else who has never designed, manufactured, and distributed a product before- expect that everything you buy perform perfectly without issue.

The recent troubles Formlabs has been having are all of a kind. They can be traced to bad assembly- parts not meeting the correct specification- and other forms of THEIR suppliers not delivering what THEY promised.

When you have something made in China, for example, and the Chinese manufacturer runs out of a certain size screw… but has an order to fill…and so substitutes a screw that is too long… or fails to train a new assembly technician who over tightens the resin sensor screws on 100 units… or, who knows, perhaps they just bought a new air powered screw driver that had too much torque? … and you don’t find out about the issue until those 100 units have been bought and shipped and are in operation… and even then, it wasn’t ALL the units you sold- just 100 that were randomly distributed throughout the world… And it takes you several months just to narrow down what the actual cause is… at first you think the user is doing something wrong…until you get enough feedback to to see that your advice isn’t making the problem go away… but then what? is it a shipment of bad sensors from the sensor manufacturer? Is the problem traceable to a single container that maybe had something happen to it enroute? and when you finally figure out that its the screws holding a good sensor in too tight… and ask users to retighten them with less force… well-that’s certainly embarrassing.

And now- does your logistics chain capture enough information to track the problem down to the specific worker or tool that is causing it? can you determine every unit that worker or tool touched to rectify it in stock before any more bad units ship?

And how much is all of this costing you?

Trust me… if you think these pesky little issues affecting your printer are frustrating for You- you have NO conception how frustrating they are for the folks who are making them.

Having developed products for overseas production- in countries where they won’t even TELL you when something is going wrong for fear of losing face, I have greater sympathy and understanding for what a delicate juggling act it is to get anything built reliably to spec.

I too have worked with lots of very high end SLA and sintering systems, and I can testify that they are far LESS reliable in direct proportion to how much more they cost.

My service bureaus generally shield me from how often their printers fail, leak, misprint, or have issues… but their services certainly factor it into the price.

Formlabs has shown every intention of making good with their promises… to the point of repairing or even replacing machines that are performing sub-nominally.

Complaining is to be expected… but given what we are all trying to do with these machines, we should all have some level of compassion for the fact that THEY are just as frustrated with their suppliers.
They look at all the unfullfilled orders for the LT tanks- or Strong Resin and Know that COULD be money in their pockets if only their suppliers could deliver as promised.

So, really- they KNOW your pain far better than you do and are working to solve the issues. ( or go bankrupt trying to )

And I say that as a new Form2 owner who’s printer never worked properly from day one, and after months of frustration had to return it for replacement.

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Spoken like a manufacturing engineer :wink:

And therein lies the rub. The money IS in the pockets already, since they charge the credit card as soon as you place your order. Which unfortunately removes the incentive to get tings moving at a better pace.

This has been my biggest peeve about FormLabs. The fact they take the money, and deliver whenever. Most companies and some credit card issuers do not allow the charge to occur until the item ships, yet somehow, FormLabs gets away with it, probably because no one complains.

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At the time of your original post, did you have Grey Pro or Rigid resin in your possession?

Have you used Tough resin in the old tank yet?

I would suggest spending a lot of money on a printer is no guarantee of better reliability. I have direct, hands-on experience of 4 high end machines, the oldest one of which was very reliable indeed, the second, from the same manufacturer, was an utter, utter disaster, while the two I use now have also been very reliable. Guess which one cost the most, 15 years ago? The first. one. And the second one? Yep, the disaster one.

I agree on all the comments regarding FormLabs obviously wanting to do the best they can for their customers, but I have had a string of issues with my brand new printer (hopefully functioning properly now…) that are clearly assembly problems, AND really sloppy work reassembling my printer with someone else’s crapped up orange cover, that they should be able to home in on the individual operative, or at least their line manager, and make sure they don’t do it again!! Frustrating for them, maybe. Absolutely infuriating for me!!!

Support has been great, no question. Just a pity their support guys get so much practise…