I found a topic in the experimental section of this forum regarding the 3dresyns Company. I just want to share my experiences with them.
As i am searching for a special kind of resin i asked them via email if they have something like that in stock. Immediately i received an NDA for 50000€. As i told them that small companies like mine in germany are not allowed to sign this NDA they abused me.
I can not recommend any business patnership nor privat purchases there. I don’t think that they are a reliable partner. I’am not sure if they are very trustworthy.
So please be careful with them.
NDA’s are nothing special in this world. What’s the problem? Why can’t you sign NDA’s? How did they ‘abuse’ you?
I’ve signed many NDA’s. Yes, for the more complex ones you need to have someone with legal knowledge have a look. But I guess you just wanted info and they wanted you to sign an NDA so you wouldn’t share it with anyone else, right?
You can always choose not to sign it and not do business…
If you are able to sign a NDA like the one I received you are very rich or stupid.
I just want to inform people how are interested. If you are not, no problem.
But for sure there are some how didn’t sign as much NDAs like you. And maybe they are not that used to that like you.
I’m trying to understand the problem with the NDA, not trying to offend you. I’m very interested in their resins as well(and was just evaluating some of them)
What does it say? I guess something in the line of “if you ever publish our information without our consent, you will have to pay us 50k”? Of course, they will set the amount reasonably high so it’s not worth it to publish the information. Some of my customers requests me to sign NDA’s too just to make sure I will never publish their work.
In today’s day and age, Non Disclosure Agreements are very common, because everybody tries to protect their intellectual property.
NDA’s in and of themselves don’t cost any money, rather it’s an agreement between you and the other party that you will not divulge any of the information that will be given to you, or use it to reverse engineer the product.
There might be some clause in the NDA that states that in the event that you should break the agreement, you might be liable for a certain amount of money, although, $50K or Euros, is a pretty small amount, usually the indemnifying fees are open to judgement after a lawsuit, and depending on the actual damage done, it can run into the millions.
Could it be that the amount in question is a NRE (non-recurring Engineering) fee? Those are the fees that a company charges for research and development of a product. Did you ask them if they can develop some special type of resin for you?
I think it was a misunderstanding of having to pay for information and use of resins. Now it has turned into a bit of a libel/slander issue which could cost him money. Please think very carefully before hitting the keys. Things can turn ugly quick.
There was no misunderstanding. And i am fine with any reasonable NDA i only asked them for a testprint of one of there resins. Nothing more. I am not angry i just want to inform you. So if you are willing to sign a NDAs like thiese feel free.
There has to be a misunderstanding somewhere, possibly a language thing. There’s no need for an NDA for a sample.
NDA’s are there to protect one’s property (intellectual or otherwise), so whatever you asked for, they may have mistakenly assumed or misunderstood that you were asking for proprietary information so they asked you to sign the NDA.
I’m sorry you didn’t like this or you got offended by it, but NDA’s are a fact of life in any business that trades in proprietary products, and that includes 3D printing.
You are totally right. And i am not sure why they are so keen to have these NDA without any need. I am not sure about the business practice. Just want to inform you about my experience with them.
A sample can be analysed to an extent, but at that point you would have to sign an NDA for just using it. Maybe they were assuming an unused sample of resin that could be analysed further.
I have signed several NDA’s with and without monetary penalties. None, thought, shall ever be paid prior to a violation. In any case there is a breakdown in communication somewhere as I stated previously.
Don’t we have an employee of the company on here? I’ve seen someone commenting on their behalf that could possibly shine light on this.
I suspect NDA laws are vastly different from country to country. They are routine here in the USA.
NDA’s are normal in the Western Business world. Why are you so upset Mitzekotze?. If you don’t like the terms of an NDA then don’t sign it…
We signed an NDA with 3dResyns earlier this year. It had a clause that contained a penalty that would be applied to either us or them of €50000 should either party make disclosures of anything covered by the NDA. We had no problem with that as we do not intend to breach the NDA,
I can only imagine someone being worried by that figure if they intend to breach the NDA. The NDA is their to protect both us and them.
We will not discuss with anyone what product it was for. Its sufficent to say that they have developed a product that is uniquely supplied to us. Ours was a specialist need. We are extremely pleased with the way that they have developed the product for us. The product meets our exact needs and we will be going to market with it in the new year.
It is hard to fault the way they have dealt with us, its been most helpful and far exceeded what we expected contractually. The hidden value for money factor that they have given us is enormous and we are delighted.
From day 1 after the NDA was signed, they have helped us with input into our project, and through our joint efforts it has now materialised as a finished product which our beta testers have said far exceeds what they expected. We do not have the slightest suspicion that the NDA has ever been breached and have every confidence in their honesty and integrity. That coupled with their approach to product design and manufacture for us, is what we feel will be a difficult combination to beat.
Our reading of your disgruntlement and (in my opinion) your libelous post is just an attempt by you to damage them for seemingly malicious and unfounded reasons.
I’m getting more and more confused with this thread. What exactly are these NDAs supposed to protect? There seems to be two things going on. One is that 3dResyns appears to want to protect some ‘secret formula’ attached to their resins, the other is that it is intended to protect designs that customers take to 3dResyns. Either way I would be suspicious of companies that expected me to sign lawyers’ boilerplate before they do business with me. But then, I have always dealt with companies for whom a respect for customer’s designs is a deep part of their culture.
We are a business and have to try to protect our investment (that is a real cost in both time and money) to develop new products. We rely on NDA’s to help do that.
I guess if someone is just using a printer as a hobby then that does not matter. We always work with reputable companies and have no problems with regards confidence that our commercial secrets will be respected and protected.
An NDA is generally used to protect and indemnify both parties that sign it, and is for lack of a better description a promise not to discuss any of the technical or proprietary details that will be developed or or divulged in the development of a project/contract. A “gag order” if you want.
It is very common in the computer/electronics industry, and is the first line of defense before any proper contract are signed.
For example, a computer manufacturer (1st Party) is approached by a client (2nd Party) to develop a system to their specifications. During this development, the 1st Party will inevitably release information on their sub contractors, and supply sources, which could, in theory, be used by the 2nd Party to bypass them, and go directly to the factory source in an attempt to get a cheaper source. Basically the 1st Party spends hundreds of man-hours designing the system, then they are cut out of the deal, when the 2nd Party deliberately takes that design and shops it out directly to the factory.
Conversely, it also protects the customer should the 1st Party try to sell the design that was developed and paid for by the 2nd Party and they try to sell it to someone else.
In the case of 3D Resyns, I would assume that anyone wanting to know about any of their existing resins, could simply simply buy a bottle and have a lab analyze it. You could also obtain the MSDS which is freely available, and they would know what’s in it. The only scenario I can think of that would elicit a NDA would be the development of a new and unique product. For example you would ask them to develop a special resin with metallic properties. The NDA would protect them, so that their new resin design is not going to be sold or given to anyone else, and they would protect the client from 3D Resyns ever trying to use or sell this resin to anyone other than the original client.
The NDA is the first document usually signed by the 2 parties before talks even begin. Once it’s determined that a project is feasible and will go on, then a proper, detailed contract is drafted and that will supersede the NDA.
First, there are plenty of people who have 3D Resyns materials. You can easily buy them without a NDA.
The only time you will need to sign an NDA is if you want a non-standard resin that is not listed for sale on the site. If they are developing a resin specifically for you it needs a NDA. Even if they send you an experimental resin that is not yet released it needs a NDA to protect them.
As many have said it’s not a big deal. You shouldn’t need to pay unless you violate the NDA or you agree to pay development costs.
Nothing wrong with signing a NDA to do custom design or development work. I imagine to answer your question appropriately they would have to divulge confidential information such as “yes we have what you are looking for but we are not releasing it for another 3 months”. This is completely normal procedure and generally protects both parties. Small companies I have worked for sign NDAs constantly. A NDA is simply agreeing to not share their confidential information with anyone, if you won’t agree to that, I say you are the untrustworthy and malicious one in this relationship.
I have never dealt with 3DResyns before but it is a real shame that you are trying to turn people against them when there was nothing wrong with their behavior as you have described it.