Nylon 12 Burr on edges

[LEADNAV]

Just some updates on testing.

Now that I have been working out the faulty chamber issue with Formlabs causing all the failures, I have run a few chambers with these settings now in Default and even though they help reduce the burr… they are still there even ever so slightly.

Add to that, I tried running the Speed Optimized settings again with these adjustments and the parts were too “crumbly” along the edges and the burr was still terrible.

Also, the “bar code” line issue showed up again. This is similar to the X/Y calibration lines and bar codes I pointed out to Formlabs. (shown here on every Speed Optimized Setting test print)

They supposedly fixed this last week as they found an issue with what they said was something to do with layers getting printed out of order or something like that… but as you can see this artificial line is still there on my parts and they told me that this was probably from that issue.

See photos of the bad burr and crumbly edges and pointing to this artificial barcode/line protruding into the part along an edge.

My gut is telling me this is a software/slicing issue and nothing to do with wrapping or edge orientation, as I see this happen on every edge in any orientation, just in these two new Default and Speed Optimization settings.

Due to this, I was recommended to run in Legacy settings, as I see none of this happening in that setting on these same part jobs.

As I said before, I think these new settings were focusing on better “part accuracy and detail” which in turn means sharper corners hence these increased edge issues I am seeing. To me I would prefer sharp corners to have a more “sanded finished” look to them as I see in Legacy mode… but maybe something for you to consider on your own parts.

I know this is not just something happening on my printer… as I even see it on all the Formlabs sample parts that I received in the past week.

Something else you/we could do… is add a chamfer or facet to all the hard edges in the CAD design of each part… but right now I am not seeing much benefit of doing all that for Default settings versus just running Legacy and Speed Optimization is even worse for just an hour or two shorter speed per chamber…

In the future it would be cool if Formlabs combined all the settings it took…to “handle corners”. For instance if you prefer sharper or a more finished edge on your prints

[LEADNAV]

Just an update after a few weeks of support on the Nylon 12 - Default setting “burring issues”.

It never truly got resolved for us. We were told to just run Legacy settings.

Our original support ticket on this got side tracked with about 15 back to back failed prints and a few weeks of troubleshooting that which ended up being a bad motor on the doser (loose coupler). After figuring that out the Burr’s continued on every single hard edge of all parts no matter the orientation.

We were told to just run Legacy settings because the same jobs in Legacy have produced beautiful parts with perfect edges.

However, we were surprised to be told that Nylon 12 Legacy will not utilize any adjustments you make to “Bed temp Offset” or “Doser Offset”…

I find this very strange as we have support emails going back to Nylon 12 GF where we were told “Bed Temp Offset Does and Does NOT…do anything”…by different support reps…throughout the same support ticket. So it is sometimes hard to believe what is true or not.

Some of you were suggesting or wishing we had a bed temp calibration print option in Nylon 12 GF…but right now I am still unclear on whether it does anything?

Just find this funny because off all the talk and guidance from folks on here suggesting running Bed Temp calibration prints as I am still uncertain whether they do anything under these different settings… but from our last support case… they tell us Legacy settings (which we were suggested to continue to run) has no adjustments in bed temp offset or dosing…

Just FYI

As you can see in my last post, even the Formlabs Sample parts sent to us have this “Burr” edge to them. I think this is them trying to make edges more precise and they just pushed them too far. For us, the Legacy setting creates a better looking edge as it looks “rounded and sanded” like a finished part. This may not be “precise” however… to the original hard corner. So it appears they tried to harden this in the new settings but again as you can see even in their sample parts it “Burrs” out these edges the opposite direction.

I wish they could refine this a bit more so we can use Default and/or offer a simple “Finished/Rounded” edge feature in Default settings so we can use “Bed Temp Offset and Doser Offset settings”

We will see…

But right now after a few weeks of support on this topic…it ended with them suggesting that we continue to run Legacy settings with Nylon 12

[LEADNAV]

And I hate questioning one support rep over the other… but right here in this photo you can see I changed the Bed Temp Offset to -1.5c for Nylon 12 and I am running a Legacy setting sliced job and you can see that it is at least displaying a dropped target temperature reflecting that adjustment down to a 178c target…

So, either way… either the user interface display is wrong or the support rep saying that “bed temp offset only works for the Nylon 12 Default and Speed Optimization setting and NOT LEGACY” is wrong… but this rep is currently working directly with the engineers so… Who really knows…?

[CARLAYERS]

As the temperature offset is set directly on the printer, I cannot explain the statement that this offset should not apply with certain print settings.
A typical machine offset is applied on the firmware side. After all, it should serve to calibrate slight irregularities in temperature measurement or temperature generation.

Since this is also displayed directly on the printer, I would clearly say that the offset is applied regardless of the settings.

[LEADNAV]

Carlayers

Yes, that is what I’d think as well and I’m pretty sure it does work with Legacy settings jobs… as I can literally see a difference in surface armor on the display and in post processing the part…plus the display showing a lower target temperature while printing.

However, this has been the very frustrating thing with Formlabs support in that a different rep will say different things but in this case, I have a rep who has been assigned to me for the past few weeks to work out these issues who is communicating directly with the engineers…assigned “by the engineers”.

I questioned this multiple times… however he insists that this is the case… after referring to them.

After weeks of trying to get the burr out of default and dealing with the faulty doser motor issue…here is what we ended on in his words.

—————-

“Thank you for the update, it appears your legacy prints are in good shape and you should be able to continue running production.

A few follow up points to clarify as you continue using the Fuse 1+ printer.

** The dosing and bed temperature offsets will not have an impact on your prints if you use Legacy settings.*

• • This is why we needed you to troubleshoot using default settings.*
    ** If you are having good prints using Legacy settings, please continue to do so.*
    ** In the unlikely event you run into future print defects with your prints, please let me know and I’ll be here to help you figure it all out again.”*

—————

So…not sure what to think but there ya have it.

I asked if we could see improvements made to default or these updates at least made to use in Legacy settings to take advantage of bed temp offset and doser offset and I was told this.

——————-

“ The legacy settings will not likely see any updates in the foreseeable future. Default settings can be adjusted to resolve the issue. For the sake of getting you caught up on production of your orders, I am suggesting you continue with Legacy settings.”

——————

So, a month ago I sought out to resolve the Default settings burring and jagged edges… and we ended back where we started after dealing with other issues that appeared during this support ticket…

As you can see in this thread the burrs and jagged edges are severe in default but look great in Legacy.

Regardless…I’m now back where we started and now confused on the offset temp and doser offset facts that the support team is insisting on…?

Like you said, that is a machine firmware setting and not to do with the slice of the job in Preform…so not sure how that could even make sense but I can only question them so much and he swears via multiple engineers at Formlabs that this is the case…

You can see my frustrations though as the end result was “just run Legacy but you can’t adjust or calibrate bed temp offset”…which we all know is very important.

Again, I as well, am certain that we are correct…and that the entire support and engineering team at Formlabs are wrong but hey… so it goes…haha

He at least did do a good job at discovering the new issue with the loose doser motor coupler that was causing all the sink hole and powder failures. I would have never pin pointed that nor tore the back off my printer to discover it on my own… So we are at least back to where we started with this support ticket

[LEADNAV]

Just some more clarification today…as I have now questioned this repeatably…

From Formlabs Support

Please allow me to correct a mistake I made in the information I provided initially about the offset features when using Legacy. Bed Temp Offset does work with Legacy, Dosing Offset does NOT work with Legacy. My apologies for the confusion throughout this journey.

I am still questioning the Doser offset setting NOT working in Legacy, as again this is set in the printer not the slicer… and right now I am at a +4 doser offset and been overdosing the sidewalls versus when I was running a 0 doser offset with Legacy… but we will test that theory next…