mine dropped about 10 0z I. two weeks during travel for work some sort of gasket would be nice once I get some time I’m going to look into it.
Damn that’s definitely quite a lot !
I don’t care what FormLabs say, but the Wash needs a gasket as it DOES evaporate. One that can be retrospectively fitted.
I’ve taken to covering it with food wrap to see if it makes a difference when it’s not in use. This is annoying, but it SEEMS to be making a difference.
I prefer the wash station that comes with the Form2- because its tanks are gasketed… but even then I keep the wash station in a shop environment- not in my office.
I keep the Form 2 IN my office- but I rigged it up inside a steelcase cabinet with an activated carbon filter and external fan keeping a constant airflow around the Form and stored resin tanks and cartridges so that any resin fumes are cleaned out of the air.
AND FYI- being able to SMELL it is not the criterion for health hazard.
lots of chemicals that can cause irritation or harm have no discernible odor…
Jeez, sorry to hear that! Will it get better? Were IPA vapors the incontrovertible cause?
I ask because I, too, spend a lot of time in the same room as my Form Wash and rinse gear. I had some sinusitis-like symptoms several months ago, they went away, then came back a couple times at maybe month long intervals. Never figured out what caused it. I considered IPA Vapors but was skeptical as I didn’t notice a direct correlation between when I printed/rinsed and when the symptoms presented (although I wasn’t anywhere near scientific about it).
I picked up a 3M respirator with organic vapor cartridges (6001 black or 6003 yellow) and try to use it when I’m working right overtop of the rinse station.
BTW here’s what I said in the other thread (aside from the gasket complaint, I like the Form Wash):
As far as the loss being minimal, I have to respond with a resounding no. This is a horrible design flaw and needs to be addressed in future versions of the product. And likely some kind of rebate/refund offered to anyone who purchased the original version.
It’s been hot here in LA and in the last couple weeks I have lost OVER A GALLON of 99% IPA due to this thing having no proper seal. And in the last couple months I’ve lost around 2-3 gallons. No leaks, just evaporation in a heat wave in a shop with no AC.
This is ridiculous, you should have known better when designing the product.
And yes, my shop is also full of dizzying IPA fumes. Hope OSHA does not swing by.
This is basically a standing container of 2.27 gallons of IPA, which has a flash (evaporation) point of 53°F. Many workshops (especially during summer heat waves) can rise to well over twice that.
INHALATION EXPOSURE LIMITS
The OSHA health standards for exposure to air contaminants require that an employee’s exposure to isopropyl alcohol not exceed an 8-h TWA of 400 ppm in the working atmosphere in any 8-h shift of a 40-h workweek (OSHA, 1982); a ceiling of 800 ppm was determined during a sampling time of 15 min (NIOSH, 1976). An estimated 141,000 employees may be exposed occupationally to isopropyl alcohol in the United States (NIOSH, 1976).
The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists established the value of 400 ppm as the TLV for isopropyl alcohol; as described above, this is the TLV currently recommended in the United States (American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, 1980, 1983). The permissible concentration of isopropyl alcohol was established by the Japan Association of Industrial Health in 1966 at 400 ppm (Japan Association of Industrial Health, 1971). In the U.S.S.R., the maximal permissible concentration of isopropyl alcohol in a single dose or as a daily average is 0.6 mg/m3(U.S.S.R. Ministry of Public Health Individual Reports, 1971).
Normally the area where my Form Wash is stored is not heavily ventilated, but I’ve had to increase ventilation to reduce IPA exposure risks. Sadly this has drastically increased the rate at which the IPA is evaporating.
Again, I’m dumbfounded that a company with so many amazing engineers and material scientists could overlook something so basic as proper sealing on a 2+ gallon container of volatile IPA. It seems almost impossible to imagine, yet here we are!
Interesting on the OSHA limits. You don’t happen to have a way of measuring ppm proximate to the Form Wash do you?
I addressed the issue myself by tightly covering the opening with saran wrap when not in use and placing a weight (e.g. full resin cartridge) on the lid to keep it down. Posted a picture on one of these threads somewhere but forget now which one. Haven’t made any measurements but I do notice a subjective reduction in vapor odor and, I think, evaporation rate.
I absolutely love our Form Wash. Prior to the Form Wash we, of course, manually cleaned…what a nightmare that was ! We went through waaaaay more IPA manually cleaning than with the Form Wash. We had a safety type garbage can that we filled with IPA soaked paper towels, a cardboard sheet screwed to our workbench that quickly got covered with resin polluted IPA. I used tooth brushes, test tube brushes, scuff pads and other assorted “implements of destruction” when cleaning prints. All this and our parts came nowhere near as clean and sticky free as when using the Form Wash.
I ruined clothes and shoes when manually cleaning and wore a shop apron and gloves while cleaning. The Form Wash is a god send any complaints I might have pale in comparison when the alternative manual cleaning method is considered.
Long live the Form Wash, great job and excellent product Form Labs…People will complain no matter what, that’s what people do !
We have used the standard cleaning kit for more than a year without any of these hassle. While the parts are being removed from the PB we made them drop directly in the bath, shook them a bit, waited 10mins, transferred into the 2nd bath for 10 more mins and then blew the parts with compressed air to get rid of excess diluted resin and IPA. We then just used an A4-ish sised paper towel to wipe the bits of ipa that got out during the transfer to the 2nd tank but thats about it.
For sure it’s MUCH more convenient with the Wash but we definitely use more IPA with the Wash than we did with the classic cleaning kit.
I’ve used the classic baskets since Form1 times until Wash came out. Never had issues you’ve described, and - get this - i was even using it in my bedroom for quite a while (because that’s where my desk and printer were). And i didn’t have the need for gloves most of the time either.
And i’m far from a dexterous person. Maybe you’re just a much bigger klutz than me.
Yes, Wash is much more convenient. No one denies this (although it still won’t help you with small cavities in printed objects, and you’ll still need to clean those out manually). The topic isn’t about it’s usefulness, but it’s quite obvious design flaw.
Well a design flaw in your opinion, surely not in mine. Do we experience some evaporation ? Yes, but it is minimal compared to the IPA lost in our manual cleaning process. We do use more IPA due to the fact that we have 2 form Wash stations and once the IPA no longer cleans well and we replace 2 gallons per…we now store and have to send our used IPA off to a disposal service. Before it was lost in the paper towels that were discarded and the cardboard bench cover I mentioned in my previous post.
I would think that perhaps our differences in manual cleaning experiences are less related to manual dexterity, or lack there of, than the parts being cleaned. We print rather large “extrusions” with hollows running their entire length that need to have the internal supports removed and the hollows cleaned after that. We even, at times, would print a frame or sash corner (window and door parts) which exacerbated the cleaning difficulties. My experiences were no exaggeration and I was not the only member of our company that was cleaning prints and we all wore shop aprons and gloves.
With respect to IPA exposure that has been discussed in this thread, I don’t see how any argument could be made for manual cleaning over Form Wash there. I generally cleaned prints first thing in the morning in a closed work shop. One could smell IPA in the hall outside of the shop even after the cleaning was completed. As another poster described, we also would use compressed air to blow off the excess IPA and further dry the print. Talk about IPA exposure ! That was basically like using an IPA atomizer to “freshen” the air. I got to the point where I no longer could even smell the IPA when I was cleaning…I guess I just got used to it. Without a doubt cleaning with the Form Wash is a more health conscious way to clean.
If you think the design is so flawed, perhaps you should put your Form Wash up for sale and go back to cleaning manually. Just a thought.
Nice strawman, but a strawman nevertheless.
I don’t think the design is “so flawed”. I think it has precisely one, very clearly described flaw.
Did it occur to you that for a lot of people IPA evaporating on its own, into the air of the room, 24/7, is not quite the same as you throwing away bunches of paper towels soaked with IPA while you work?
Just loaded up my Wash with 99% IPA and, yes, there is definitely enough evaporation happening to effect the air quality in the room. I have a fairly large space (approx 800 sq ft) and there is a perceptible alcohol smell in the room after eliminating all other sources of IPA. Pretty big problem for me, given that I live in LA where work space tends to double as living space.
I will likely end up resorting to sealing it with tape or covering it with a plastic bag when not in use, but it’s a pretty disappointing necessity for something that could have been easily solved with a rubber gasket. 100% agreed.
I’ve got a print started for some gaskets I made in Tinkercad. My first CAD drawing :).
I’m going to print them in flexible and see how they hold up. If the dimensions are ok, I’ll post the files. They’ll sit in the space that to me looks like it was designed for a gasket around the perimeter of the lid. The back of the lid will still be gasket-less for now - that section is a bit beyond my current Tinkercadabilities!
Effectively covering that back-of-the-lid part is not looking like it can be done. I suspect that if the gasket does not go all the way around the tank then the overall effectiveness will be greatly diminished. Additionally, the gasket will need to fit nicely like it does on the old Rinse Station lid. However even my old Rinse Station loses IPA over time at about 100 ml per year.
I think Formlabs statement that, their prototype gaskets did little to stop the evaporation, is our clue that this is a unsolvable problem given the cost limitations of such a product. A very thick tank that has a clamp seal is not an easy thing to make.
Some people have pointed out that they are cleaning parts all day long every day and that is consuming lots of IPA as well. Be that as it may, there are some of us that print only a few times a week and we are loosing 90% of our IPA to evaporation from the Form Wash tank. I have measured it and it is about .5" lower after just three weeks.
This is the link to the other thread on this issue:
What i ended up doing is covering up the Wash basket edge to edge with cling wrap when i know i won’t be using it for a while. That does the trick - you’ll still lose some, but way less than normally, especially in summer months.
When i am actively using it, i cover it up with a small trash bag (or just a plastic shopping bag) and then close the lid on top of that. This doesn’t cut down on evaporation as much, but at least reduces the noticability of the fumes. It’s also easy to remove and put back.
I made gaskets using a relatively closed-cell silicone foam. This has worked well at keeping the loss of IPA to a minimum and the fumes from the IPA are not noticeable.
@MattBowen33 Can you post photos of your gasket installation? And maybe points us to where you bought the foam? It sounds like you found a solution that works and I hope it can be helpful for others on this thread.
Here are pictures of the gaskets I made. I just used a 1/4" semi-closed cell silicone rubber from McMaster-Carr. Nothing special about it. https://drive.google.com/file/d/14GK9xSvCZHlTYR5YL_ixhumZZ47qsmyN/view?usp=sharing
Does anyone happen to have a CAD file of some sorts for the gaskets?
I’d like to try printing a sorta ridged, semi-labyrinthine TPU gasket to see if it’ll do any good.