So I am considering a purchase of a new printer but I see the FL3s as transition products much like the FL1s.
I think it is pretty clear that the FL1 was a first best guess at an SLA printer that made a lot of cash for FL so they could really develop the FL2. And FL did.
I see the FL3s in the same category as the FL1s. So I am going to wait until 2021 when I predict the FL4s come out. Or in the worse case I’m gone by then.
Can you elaborate on what makes you think the Form 3 is a transition product ?
I dont know if it is a transition product, i would love to have one but ill consider to buy another form 2 instead form 3. Why?
first of all, compatibility… i guess that form 3 uses different resin tanks. i Have 10 tanks storing resin and switching to another system will be pain in the ass. The main reason i have a formlabs form 2 instead of a chineese dlp brand is the confort and that beautifull family of products (main printed- tanks-cartridges all integrated in a solid module).
Then prize, but more important, form 2 is Outstanding !! I dont get crazy removing supports and the failure ratio is sooooo low… Is form3 worth? mmmm… i dont think so… I run a small company and only with form 2 i sell 1k USD per month in prints… maybe if i get bigger… but Buying another form 2 is tempting
Same printer really, at almost twice the price!
Build envelope just about the same, Speed: no difference. There is no change in the underlying technology. Just a change in the cost. The FORM 2 rocks, its a perfect little machine: why pay almost double for the same machine. These folks are going to price themselves out of the market fast with this mindset: so much for those MBA’s.
In fact I would argue its old technology already. DLP technology is much faster and should be the new standard in 24 months. This is simply a revenue building exercise. After the FUSE 1 disaster they need a new product desperately right now. This is supposed to be it I suppose. LOVE the FORM2 but really guys? All that outside investment and DLP still not being announced? No thanks.
Nope and Nope
Twice the price of what? Form is 2800 right now and form 3 3500
DLP? Sure bro? youve been using Chineese dlps? refilling tanks? no thanks.
The FORM 3 lists for $5999.00 bro: Better look a little closer:
https://formlabs.com/store/form-3/form-3-complete-package/
Then thats a serious typo!
DLP? Fast fast fast. Single point laser: on its way out. Love the Form2 for what it is but a new shell and you mark it up 100%? No thanks. No offense to Formlabs just simple facts.
Hey, let you in on something. They’re trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. At the end of the day this is a tidy little industry with an easy entry for tons of companies. All the machines are and will be are the next gen injection mold machines. Nothing more. The hype is over its now just brass tacks. Margins are trimming up and will stay that way. The sooner companies realize that the sooner the companies can scale and make good solid revenue year over year. But if they keep on the " New Unicorn " bent and " Path To Wall Street " approach the more agonizing its going to be for them. Watch and see bro.
And yes I see the that the $5999.00 page is the " complete package " but how does that page communicate: not so well right? Get my point bro?
People complaining about these prices and not wanting to upgrade need to go kick rocks. FL has been an amazing addition to many of our tool sets and does a great job overall and at a fraction of the price of other options. FL has always been very accessible, helpful and professional. Sometimes you have to push a bit harder but they always have done right thing by us in the end. If it’s too much money or you just can’t see yourself upgrading, that’s fine. Complain all you want but in the end, tech moves forward and those of us that can use this tool and see its value will to use their products. The rest should just move to another lane and select a different option.
Form 2 Complete Package is $4500… (It doesn’t include the extended warranty, which the Form 3 Complete does.)
The complete package, the The formlabs form 3 starts at 3500 usd, you better look closer.
DLP sucks, the ratio of failures of all the comercial brands ive tested sucks. Formlabs is going safe, have high quality resins, auto dispensing, family of products switcheable without touching resin. Man, come on… a Fomr 2 is now 2800 USD, and a PRUSA SL1 is 1500 USD. You cant compare, finish kit, and all the thins i mentioned.
Come to think of it, all their products are transition products… so you can wait forever and don’t get anything.
Formlabs rocks bros! Go get yourselves a Form 3! Yes!
A transitional product is one where the manufacturer is seeking quick new sources of revenue to build the next new product, The FL1s are classic examples.
The FL3s are using a slightly newer tech but it does not as yet advance the prior tech by being faster or with increased precision. At a certain micron level of print there is a diminishing rate of return printing with the precision of nanos! or picos. For me that is!
However, if I were buying today I would buy a FL3. But since I have a nice FL2 don’t see the need.
Form3 is definitely not a QUICK new source of revenue being a few years in development with all the internals completely redesigned. We have yet to find out if it prints faster or more precise (with future firmware updates?), but having user replaceable internals is a really big thing, eliminating the need of shipping the whole thing back and forth for repair/replacement.
If anything, by this definition Form1+ has been a transitional product.
If when referring to the FL1 as transitional, you mean transitioning from there being exactly 0 SLA options that were remotely affordable for the prosumer and enthusiast market to actually having something that was within reach of consumers that didn’t have 6 figures laying around, then sure, it was transitional. With the form2, they refined the kinds of things they would only have enough data to understand after having released a product.
I can understand some reluctance around the new print engine, as I have some myself, but I do think its a bit disingenuous to try to shove the Form 3 into some kind of cash grab category. What they’ve done with the new print engine design is pretty novel, as they’ve sought to get rid of beam spot distortion and eliminate peel and lift cycles all in one shot. I have my curiosities about what the net effect will be for surface finish in a system where the laser can’t trace the outline paths continuously, but I’m sure that will become evident soon enough. I also have my concerns about a print mechanism that involves a moving print head sliding (abrading) against the bottom of a flexible tank, as well as the idea of a flexible tank itself. I had a Pegasus touch at one point and I can tell you that the folded/flexible tank idea on that platform was a disaster.
Look at the plus side, Formlabs has already committed to supporting the Form2 for another 4 years, so there will be plenty of time to see how the Form3 actually behaves before passing judgement. Maybe widespread usage will yield significant design flaws and we’ll see a form3+ in short order, maybe not. I don’t think either case supports the notion that the Form3 is a “transitional” release. It just suggests that a company is trying to innovate but there are only so many hours a product can spend in the lab, under a finite set of test cases before it has to be released to the public. Some of the failure modes that I’m sure will be seen in the Form3 will be things that could never have reasonably been predicted or tested in a pre-production, synthetic test environment.
Strange cant find any pricing on the VAT for the new Form3, kinda spooky, does it have an open mode? 3rd part materials doable? Those are BIG questions: anyone have any idea?
Vat for form3 is supposed to be $149
$149.00 for the Form3 VAT vs $59.00 for the FORM2 VAT: does the new VAT last longer? I hope, or that makes the Form3 a helluva lot more expensive to own. No idea on 3rd party material? Anyone?
Check the announcement thread. Been discussed there.
Vat should last as long as an LT tank. Open mode still has to be added, probably directly after release.