Form Wash with anything other than IPA?

#15

The easiest way to find a distributor is to go to the DOW website and request distributor information for your area. I haven’t found it for sell outside of a distributor yet.
https://www.dow.com/en-us/contact/products

In my testing of Yellow Magic 7, it worked ok in an ultrasonic cleaner. The specifics will depend on what ultrasonic cleaner and resin you use. It is not compatible with the Form Wash and doesn’t work well with plain agitation anyway. We also have not tested material properties (tensile strength, elongation, etc.) when parts are washed with Yellow Magic 7.

As for a comparison, the main differences are that TPM is considered non-flammable by GHS/OSHA (check your local regulations) and is compatible with the Form Wash. DPM will bubble the powder coat on the Form Wash.

DPM will dry a little faster, but way slower than even water. I have seen DPM on Amazon before, so it may be a little easier to procure.

#16

We buy our dpm from a local distributor. In bulk(20 liter container) is much cheaper for us, like 1/3th of price compared to liter bottles.

I think we now put 3 or 4 liter of printed parts through the form wash with dpm and it hasn’t saturated. After about 2 months we still don’t have to top up the formwash which is impossible with ipa.

And yes, the coating of the wash and platform has disappeared… but machine works fine still.

@tech_nickl how long do you do a wash session? We do around 10 to 15 minutes, then rinse in hot water and then spray dry.

Another plus: we used to need different buckets for rigid and standard resins otherwise rigid particles would ruin our parts. This is not needed since we use DPM.

#17

We also buy locally, cheap and easy to get…

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TPM is even cheaper and great in the ultrasound bath (Its not as quick as DPM)

Has anyone tried this? (Link on the website of JR Hess) It seems they have put together something specially for 3D printing

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#18

@tech_nickl Thanks for your response. Glad to hear that TPM is lasting a long time in your office. The longer it lasts before we have to change it the better. It’s beginning to sound as if we will need to do a water rinse after all. It’s not that we can’t do it, it’s just that it’ll mean more chemical safety/disposal procedures be put in place. Around here everything has to be done by the book. We’re actually really lucky that we were allowed to have a cleaning station in our lab in the first place.

#19

Thanks for the reply and for cuing us into Formlabs’ research into alternative solvents, @tech_nickl. Very helpful!

What does “not compatible with the Form Wash” mean in the specific context of Yellow Magic 7?

On the topic of TPM/DPM, can anyone comment how the washing action of these work compared to IPA (creates a solution of resin dissolved in IPA) or Yellow Magic 7 (simply washes the resin off the part)?

Is it possible to capture the resin out of the TPM or DPM after it has been used for a while like Yellow Magic 7?

Has anyone used a particulate filter to try and filter out the IPA bath in a Form Wash? It seems some of the Form Wash problems could be solved if there was a pump & filter running while agitating to keep the contamination down…

#20

I won’t speak for Nick here, but typically that kind of incompatibility points to some aspect of the solvent not playing nicely with some material inside the machine over a longer period of time, increasing the chance of issues with the Wash.

Alternatively, it could be that the solvent doesn’t last for enough washes, or affects the actual printed part adversely etc etc.

#21

I contacted DOW for distributors of TPM in my area and they denied to do business with me since I am not a registered business owner. Is TPM only available to business exclusively?

#22

I have tried reaching out to DOW as well. They refused to discuss selling the material since I am a home based business. It did not matter that I have a business license and LLC. I have yet to find a distributor. Maybe I just do not know how to look up the correct distributors on the internet. I am located in Birmingham, Al.

#23

For TPM we use 15 minutes for most materials. Glad to hear DPM is working for you. We just can’t recommend it due to the damage it causes to the Form Wash. It is compatible with our resins though.

#24

As mentioned above, DPM and Yellow Magic will eat the powder coating, but it may have other effects as well, especially when mixed with resins. Basically use at your own risk in the Form Wash.

To your other question, TPM, DPM, and IPA are solvents. They actually dissolve the components of the resin into solution. Yellow Magic 7 seems to mostly act as a detergent and keep removed resin from re-depositing on the part. That’s why it works well with ultrasonic cleaners.

Mechanical filtration of the solvents won’t remove the dissolved components, but it may remove pigments and other large particles that could extend the life of your solvent somewhat.

#25

I was able to purchase TPM from JR Hess, its sold in 5 gallon drums at $410 each. They did not ask a bunch of questions about my usage like the Dowanol vendors so maybe they are more home business friendly. I plan to put TPM in the form wash and water in an ultrasonic. The TPM leaves a greasy film on the parts before the water bath, is a degreaser used in the water or does plain water remove that? If a degreaser would help reduce contaminated water waste that would be helpful.

#26

Anyone found an alternative to resinaway ? I like the fact that is not flammable. My room is not that well ventillated and I stress a bit about the fact that the fumes can ignites because of my heater… but if resinaway makes you puke cause of the smell it’s not that good i guess… Anything non flammable that doesnt smell that bad??

#27

I also tried different solutions but IPA looks the best from perspective of performance/price/convenience. The main problem with IPA is the smell, but it could be very easily solved if you use removable ventilation over the pots where you wash the details. I made a simple, removable ventilation which could be used practically everywhere where you can open a window :

  1. Use cylinder fan 125mm diam like this one https://maxgrowshop.com/bul_pl_ВЕНТИЛАТОР-В-ЛАЙН-125-VKO-125mm-185m3-h-387_2.jpg

  2. Add two flexible and extendable pipes on both sides of the fan like these ones:
    https://bauhaus.bg/img/20302/640/640/product_20302.jpg

  3. Attach round to rectangular pipe converter directly on the tank with the IPA
    https://bauhaus.bg/img/33485/640/640/product_33485.jpg

  4. Other end of the pipe attach outside of the window (passing through semi opened window).

If you’re interested I can post some images of my solution where you can see some details how things fit together. I can ensure you, that when using this ventilation solution, there is zero smell of IPA - it’s impossible to sense any smell of IPA when washing the details.

#28

Than you very much @luben111 ! I will take a look into that! I will be trying alternative of IPA (SimpleGreen and MeanGren) in the near future but if it doesnt go as plan and I go back to IPA I will really consider your solution.!

#29

Hi kdude,
I tried Mr.Proper (similar to Simple Green and MeanGrean) with FormLabs resins and the results are dreadful - after washing in 50deg good quality ultrasonic bath for 10 minutes the surface became covered with sticky / tacky layer. Any attempts to remove this tacky layer without IPA were in vain. If you don’t remove it - after curing the surface looks terrible. Personally for me Simple Green and MeanGrean are no-go ways. Not on last place - the smells of Simple Green and MeanGrean (the deodorants inside these cleaners) are actually stronger than IPA.

#31

What are people in California using now the IPA has been banned from sale there?

#32

How has your experience with TPM been?

#33

TPM works well. We use it in the form wash. Let it drip dry after the wash. We wash in a dish soap & water ultrasonic bath afterwards and let it dry before the UV cure.

#34

This is a great topic! Thanks to everyone posting so far. I’m a new Form 3 owner and with the scarcity of isopropyl alcohol (and it being banned in CA apparently) TPM sounds like a good alternative.

@karambu what kind of ultrasonic cleaner do you use? Thanks in advance!

#35

DPM attacks some plastics, ABS? so you need to use an all metal ultrasonic.