Form 1 / 1+ / 2 3rd Party Resin Settings Master List

#532

I am sorry to say this… But you don’t really understand what I am talking about… I don’t think you really understand electronics.

We are discussing a 1 wire EPROM here… Not a car… There is only a certain amount of things can be done on a 1 wire EPROM.

My reasoning is that, no matter how we hide our way to hack a 1 wire EPROM, it would take 30 minutes max for formlabs to figure out how we hacked it. We need to figure out a way to hack the 1 wire EPROM in way that even formlabs know how we hacked it, it is close to impossible or every expensive to fix.

Instead of comparing this to a Car, you should compare it more to the NES or PS2 hack. The reason you see those 100 games in a cartridge hack in NES is that Nintendo decided to connect the cartridge directly to the BUS without any protection(not like they care about security back in the days). There is no way to fix it without modify the hardware. They know the hack and how the hack hacked it. They can’t fix it.

Same thing goes with all those 3rd party 2D printer cartridges. and etc…

#533

Had a short discussion with a colleague and reviewed my way of hacking.

We don’t see any significant legal problems with my hack itself.
There is also no reasonable way for formlabs to update their firmware to “fix” the hack.

Even if they decided to upload the cartridge id to the cloud when empty, we can still sniff and spoof the network traffic.

The content of the chip is however, formlabs’ copyrighted stuff so we can’t really host anything. The chip content bank will just be links to user provided stuff, or a github repository to keep it legal.

Uploading the chip content to the internet however, might be illegal.

So here is courtesy warning to @fantasy2 that you might be infringing formlabs’ copyright if you are providing their chip content to your customer. If you are using a different approach, you have nothing to worry about.

#534

I agree. Also, the last updates in software and firmware forced an update upon us due to our tinkering.

#535

There is nothing wrong with @fantasy2 charging for his work as development and parts are a business expense. We need to maintain a more civil tone here than making subtle jabs at one another.

#536

I think someone on here is way more full of themselves when it comes to understanding device security and DRM models than they should be.

How about this hypothetical… FormLabs could just decide to encrypt the entire contents of the chip and store a copy of the chip ID and checksum pair inside the printer as soon as you insert it. When a cartridge is loaded, the contents of the EEPROM is read and decrypted in the printer and the chip/internal table updated periodically. When a cartridge is first loaded that uses the old data spec, the printer converts it to the new spec and immediately writes the updated data back to eeprom then verifies it with an immediate read.

Failed write - fail the cartridge
Failed checksum comparison against internal - Fail the cartridge
Cartridge with old format that was previously converted - Fail the cartridge

No internet or cloud needed to lock you out and any attempt to manipulate the process results in a blacklisted cartridge that reports a fail. Oh, and since the new cartridges manufactured from that point forward utilize the fully encrypted spec, you are basically on a countdown timer until your “unstoppable” hack gets scrapped, perhaps at something like the resin shelf life cycle + 25% or so for good measure, thus killing your hack even if you do decide to go the route of spoofing the device IDs.

My point here is that the hubris of going on a manufacturer forum and telling folks that you have a plan for an unblockable hack while bashing someone for playing it (wisely) close to the vest is uncalled for and arrogant. All it serves to do is further motivate Formlabs to squash such efforts. The comparison of this to an old game console is about useless. Those platforms had no way to WRITE to the cartridges. The onewire device here is nothing more than a storage medium, so its not about the device at all in this case, its about managing the data format that is stored on it, and that is something Formlabs can most certainly change on the fly, so long as they maintain backwards compatibility for just long enough to allow previous generation cartridges to phase out.

#537

@David_Persuhn
Thank you. I fully agree.

There are still people using the ‘old’ device I made. They simply are not updating their form 2 anymore. There is no need really as all these 3rd party resins work perfectly on standard clear or grey V2 and V3 settings and the engineering resin which are mainly driving the updates are not really needed. After 2(I think?) year the form 2 is pretty bug free and runs fine.

Regarding the latest solution:
I wanted to let you all know that after a few months of work and testing by several people on the forum(thank you!), the modules are ready and I have them available for shipping right now.

They work great. I tested them with Photocentric 3D resin and others with ALW resins. Printing quality is much better and more accurate than in open mode.

Contact me for details: info@protoart.net

#538

This topic seems to be getting quiet. :frowning:

Did anyone do any more testing with 3rd party resins? There seem to be a lot of new resin manufacturers popping up the recent months. I’m still looking for a high temp resin that can withstand about 160 C and isn’t a brittle as formlabs’s resin but more close to a material like PBT, PPA, etc.

#539

I’m interested in your 3rd party resin solution @fantasy2. I sent you a message via email.

#540

Wow. I’ve been way out of the loop here for quite a while. Just binge-consumed this entire thread! Some really amazing work by everyone here. My hat is off to everyone but the hubristic douche that @David_Persuhn so eloquently pointed out :slight_smile:

Cheers Lads,
-C

#541

Hehe yeah, I think this is the longest thread so far. :slight_smile:

If someone has the time, it would be interesting to update the list with the new resin manufacturers and improved resins for anyone new joining the party. A lot changed since this thread started!

It’s funny now that since I have a few bottles of cheaper resin, I print every custom small knob and whistle I need for private use without having to think about cost. Some resins are not as smooth or perfect as formlabs resin but you don’t always need that for hobby parts.

#542

Hi all
Just to let you know that we have reformulated all our standard 3Dresyns, including our basic, special and custom RAL and NCS colors, to print directly in open mode with the settings for Formlabs Clear version 2.

We have fine tuned our 3Dresyns to work well with both, the first produced Form 2 printers as well as with last generation ones. We have done the tests with several Form 2 printers bought at different times.

The reformulation has been done because we observed that the optimum dosage of our Fine Tuners FT1 and LB1 varied a bit from one Form 2 printer to another, depending probably on the printer´s manufacturing date and software version. This printability variation with the Form 2 printers and software has been already discussed in the forums.

We have launched several interesting materials, including 3Dresyns with excellent temperature and chemical resistance without brittleness, some ultra safe monomer free resins, engineering functional materials, flexible and elastic materials foldable without breaking, etc,… Our new high deflection temperature resin is rigid and non brittle and resist temperature up to 290C.

Greetings

John M.
3Dresyns

#543

John,
Has there been any testing using your high deflection temperature resin for injection molding?
I am thinking of trying it as the HT resin from form labs works good but its a bit brittle.
Just ordered some for testing :slight_smile:

#544

One thing that I’ve found for injection molding is to mount the detail in the mold frame along with two part silicone (use mold release to keep it from sticking).

The silicone takes up any small gaps and helps keep the detail from cracking.

#545

So I tried the 3DResyn UHT HTR with black pigment today.

Using the recommended clear V2 profile, I had massive under curing and parts breaking partially during printing. Then I did a 30 minute cure in the form Cure and followed by putting them in the oven at 150 Celsius.

The material became extremely brittle at this temperature. Standard formlabs resin performs much better. I’m not sure what’s going wrong here, but so far it’s no better than the photocentric high tensile resin.

I’m now trying to print with it in closed mode. Will do more printing tests and let you know.

#546

FredB,
Thanks for the tip. I do use 100% silicone oil to dress the mold and then anneal to re leave stress.
I have had great success with my first test run. 2 part clip mold

using Hylon @550F (287 C)

FLIR0023

& got 373 shots off it before parts were unusable. I pushed it hard at the end.

#547

Well that’s sad to hear.
Hopefully I have better luck with it.

#548

That’s actually quite a few shots for a printed mold especially if you were pushing things a little.

I’ve used a fan to give extra mold cooling in the past. Takes forever to cool things off.

#549

It was a good first trial. I was hoping for 10 to 50… Cooling takes up a lot of the time. I found that a 15 sec compressed air blast worked great every other shot to keep temp down but keep in mind I was pushing the temp limit of the Hi-temp resin with this material. Toward the end I was pushing 5 shots in a row with mold release every shot then cool for 30 secs. (That’s where I did a lot of the damage) I have made a air gun with a split off to blast each half of the mold at the same time to cut cooling time in half. My end thought would be to design a EOA (end of arm) to automate the cooling and spraying of the molds but this is a ways down the line. I will be running my 2nd test with much lower temps (polyp) and expect to see even more shots.

#550

Well got my order in today of 3dresyns high deflection temperature resin. Very disappointed that the resin came in like sand and is unusable.

#551

@fantasy2 I’m having an issue with your cartridge module. I sent you an email and PM a week ago, is there a better contact for you?

I’ve been using DigitalForge3d resin. I’ve printed maybe half a liter and it’s great. Not a single issue with prints and the price is awesome. So far I’ve been using it in closed mode by pouring it into an empty cartridge. I have not tried it in open mode, but hopefully when I get @fantasy2’s cartridge module working, I won’t ever have to. I’ll post some pics of my next print batch.