# The problem of printing 25 micron **URL:** \ **Category:** Form 2\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657 "2016-11-26T11:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![saeedam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/saeedam/32/7877_2.png) [@saeedam](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/saeedam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/1 "2016-11-26T11:49:44Z")
The problem of printing 25 micron The lack of printing 25 micron piece carefully, but support was made What is the problem? ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/a/a85c404fb7b56e918ac57f99a68206a3388bd97a.png) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/2/29e1ae899b243598a2130e333c970332dcf09905.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DavidRosenfeld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/davidrosenfeld/32/3570_2.png) [@DavidRosenfeld](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DavidRosenfeld)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/2 "2016-11-26T12:21:27Z")
If you want that part to print oriented like that, you will need to add 4 more supports and enlarge the touch point size way up. Your better bet is to orient it with both X and Y sides up at about 45 degrees. Then you can use 2 or 3 supports where the part starts to generate and a few scattered up the part. FWIW, I don’t think that part is worth printing at 25 microns. Print it at 100 and sand the surfaces smooth. Maybe slightly enlarge it so the final part is dimensionally accurate. ---
**Author:** ![saeedam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/saeedam/32/7877_2.png) [@saeedam](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/saeedam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 12:44pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/3 "2016-11-26T12:44:04Z")
> [@saeedam](#): > > The problem of printing 25 micron > The lack of printing 25 micron piece carefully, but support was made > What is the problem? Print the slope is the same way ---
**Author:** ![mdrm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/mdrm/32/7162_2.png) [@mdrm](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/mdrm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/4 "2016-11-26T14:17:03Z")
printing surfaces parallel to the build platform is a big NO NO. I always slope at minimim 15°, better 25°. Large areas should be supported at least every 3 or 4cm. I have no problem printing at 25 micrometers. Actually printing at higher rates may induce more tray clouding. Maybe someone wirh more clouding experience can verify that? ---
**Author:** ![alan1950](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6de8d8/32.png) [@alan1950](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/alan1950)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/5 "2016-11-26T18:16:26Z")
Add more parts and locate them close together to share the base creating a larger overall footprint that will stick much better to the platform. ---
**Author:** ![saeedam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/saeedam/32/7877_2.png) [@saeedam](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/saeedam)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/6 "2016-11-27T14:44:27Z")
The problem persists 25 micron ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/4/4f7a2b0f4fe9d3d4fd0f5743c112d4aebe598b73.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/8/88f89e7deb57bd5bbc909bf84a13f43481e7fe15.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DavidRosenfeld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/davidrosenfeld/32/3570_2.png) [@DavidRosenfeld](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DavidRosenfeld)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/7 "2016-11-27T15:16:03Z")
A few more questions, What point size are you using? Can you print either of your models at 50 or 100 micron with success? Have you had any other failures or successful prints at the other resolutions? Can you post up the .form files of both parts? Being that you are getting rafts to print, your vat should be clean of debris, I assume you have fished out anything floating around in the resin and scraped the bits stuck to the pdms layer. I would also angle this part up a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![fantasy2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e4f/32.png) [@fantasy2](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/fantasy2)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/8 "2016-11-27T20:08:27Z")
25 micron layers are very weak. I almost never print at 25 micron as the detail improvements almost never weigh up against the change of a failed print. What is the printing orientation relative to the wiper? You need more supports at the start/bottom of the print. 0.3mm will work fine for this part. But at least add two or three more support. I also print these kind of prints almost vertical(like 10 degree from vertical). Works much better(less stress on the supports due to lower total layer surface). ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Cohen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/randy_cohen/32/1500_2.png) [@Randy\_Cohen](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Randy_Cohen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/9 "2016-11-27T21:22:47Z")
Many objects can be printed a 0.1mm without obvious layering being visible in the print. In general, you should start with the highest layer size and work down to lower sizes if it appears necessary. When printing at 0.25mm, the cross-sectional area of each layer has to be kept small or the support density has to be increased significantly (you can go \>100%) to ensure the layer doesn’t peel off the supports instead of off the PDMS like you want… ---
**Author:** ![saeedam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/saeedam/32/7877_2.png) [@saeedam](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/saeedam)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 8:33am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/10 "2016-11-28T08:33:36Z")
test print at 25 micron ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/7/7e0ccc33ad10376116fccd9a74d70a555a047940.png) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/b/b6086e4894c6b0f483360c1955ec9d153f873bdb.png) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/d/d305658eaf7f7e2454680fc68c5779674d6e10af.png) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/7/7aa8ed3892b4bec47955a3bf34fff97c604aa604.jpg) Result ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/c/c709457de6528400d02c5f6f5f2319da3f5910ba.jpg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/d/d44c0c09df6504516488f5a95839e42f2789b6ce.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DavidRosenfeld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/davidrosenfeld/32/3570_2.png) [@DavidRosenfeld](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DavidRosenfeld)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/11 "2016-11-28T10:16:42Z")
I would open up a support ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Zachary\_Brackin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4da419/32.png) [@Zachary\_Brackin](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Zachary_Brackin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/12 "2016-11-28T17:17:14Z")
The platform is not going to be perfectly flat to the bottom of the tray, the system compensates for it with a higher exposure time starting out. This is so that you don’t have to do any platform calibration when printing, you just attach it and print. ---
**Author:** ![DavidRosenfeld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/davidrosenfeld/32/3570_2.png) [@DavidRosenfeld](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DavidRosenfeld)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/13 "2016-11-28T22:34:02Z")
Obviously this is true but his test should have printed all of the little cubes and his butterflies look terrible, that crud in between the butterflies shouldn’t be there. I would first say that the optics are dirty but he is using a Form 2. So, in theory it can’t (or shouldn’t) be that. Maybe some pictures of the internal mirrors, vat, and cover glass would assist us in troubleshooting. ---
**Author:** ![Frew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c0e974/32.png) [@Frew](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Frew)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/14 "2016-11-29T02:31:34Z")
Seconding suggestions to [open up a ticket with our support team](https://tickets.formlabs.com/hc/en-us/requests/new) so we can help troubleshoot this with you. There shouldn’t be cured resin between the rafts and that usually means that the laser is being scattered somehow. Linking this thread in your ticket as well as including PreForm and Firmware versions would be a big help. ---
**Author:** ![saeedam](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/saeedam/32/7877_2.png) [@saeedam](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/saeedam)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:12am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/15 "2016-11-29T08:12:41Z")
I clean the glass window but it has dust and cloud under glass window how can i clean under the glass window > [@Large Hazy Streak On Glass of New Form2!](http://forum.formlabs.com/t/large-hazy-streak-on-glass-of-new-form2/9465): > > My brand new Form2 has huge, hazy smudge on optical glass. I’ve not attempted to clean it yes since I only unboxed it an hour ago. Here is a link to a video showing the hazy area along left side of the sealed glass cover. You can see several streaks and what look like drip blotches in the hazy area. There was also a large amount of dust covering the glass when I first removed the clear protective tape. Another thing I noticed right away is a fairly large flake of black material between the … ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/4/4d40b2f092ca3844f1f2ebcc75c94e5937566a7f.png) ---
**Author:** ![Zachary\_Brackin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4da419/32.png) [@Zachary\_Brackin](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Zachary_Brackin)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/16 "2016-11-29T17:03:17Z")
Was it printing correctly before? ---
**Author:** ![FormBeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FormBeast](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/FormBeast)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/17 "2016-12-09T16:24:22Z")
Is that moisture underneath the window? I’ve seen this in another thread. That would definitely be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/3X/5/b/5bc2bdf993ff27c2e0eecab5010b25626fbb327a.png) [@system](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/the-problem-of-printing-25-micron/10657/18 "2016-12-23T16:24:32Z")
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