Successful castings from clear resin using ceramic shell


#17

@Erich_Knoespel would you mind detailing the problems you had with the castable blue material? I’ll be ordering my form2 in the next couple weeks and want to figure out whether or not I should be ordering the castable material for my larger-than-jewelry project.

It might help formlabs identify the problem and correct the formula.

Thanks!


#18

Hi @SmithDrewSmith
@Frew
I just find that it is very expensive, doesn’t store well, degrades or separates in the tank far too quickly, and has a low success rate for anything larger than jewelry. The other resins have made the machine worth it though. I plan to use it to make injection molds for waxes in the future (maybe)

I found that it doesn’t store well in the tank. After a few prints the resin starts to develop white flakes and prints will fail at every attempt. if the print succeeds then I will have trouble post curing and then casting. ( i have tried to stir it into the resin again but it wasn’t having it.) It’s also very expensive for a product I have yet to have a successful print-to-cast experience with. Burnout isn’t particularly clean either.

Recently I gave it another try for a project. I used my own orientation and had poor print results (the flat areas near the build plate went to hell and were sloppy. A second attempt was made with Formlabs recommended support and orientation. the geometry was alright but there were peel issues where there were harsh lines across the print in some areas and the supports seemed to have pulled away from the main areas and taken shards from the printed shapes. The printer is quite amazing but the castable resin is sub par for my purposes unfortunately. :slight_frown:


#19

Great. Thanks for the insight! I guess I’ll either save the money or pick a different resin.


#20

The Form2 is amazing and there are other castable resins available. Will you be using investment or ceramic shell?


#21

Investment with a vacuum casting setup. Aluminum and brass are the only metals I’ve worked with, might try silver at some point.


#22

OK!!

I got a Form 2 with the express purpose of going from print, to shell. The “castable” blew apart the shell due to too much expansion. (as you no doubt discovered too) Am I to understand that the CLEAR burns out perfectly, with no shell cracks? (I read up, and I see you have “minimal” cracking)

When you sprued the prints up, you just used regular casting wax? I’ve used Baer Bronze in the past. I restore antique wooden canoes, and I’m trying to replicate unavailable hardware. If you are used to this method, I’d be delighted to send my jobs to you. it was an experiment with, and for Baer, They are mostly large artistic pieces.

Thanks!

Mark Adams


#23

Mark, wouldn’t that hardware be sand cast? Another option is to create the pieces in clear and then use a sandcasting kit…other folks have used that method with medallions on the Forum.


#24

I bought quite a few litres of Castable Resin and most of it has been wasted in trials and tests. I was hoping that the Form 2 would work for jewellery and the detail that you can achieve is good. The resin does separate but I find that you can stir it back in with the scraper - just be careful not to scratch the tank. You have to post cure for several hours I find I need to cure for at least 6 hours in a 90 watt UV 405nm box. all day in bright sunlight works too. Then you must use a harder investment plaster. I use Plasticast from R&R because it is recommended by Formlabs. You need to let that dry and harden at room temperature for 8 hours or more. Then a long burnout. I go up to 800 degrees C and the result for small jewellery items is just about passable but you need to spend at least twice as long to clean up the cast item.
The results with castable are disappointing so I am looking for alternatives. I have not tried clear and would be astonished if it works. If anyone has experience of this or found a better resin I would love to know. Also if you can have a glass-filled resin what about a wax filled one? Come on Formlabs. There is a big market waiting if you get castable resin working properly.


#25

You can try grey, that what I use for dental framework.
I totally agree with you, cartable is not good, and it’s been a long time we ve been waiting for a new formula…no answers yet…
@Frew no answers from you guys?


#26

@Hillzzz The casting process can be tricky and our support team is happy to help work through optimal settings with you. We’ve found that 8 hours of curing is necessary for proper burnout and inadequate curing seems to be the main cause of poor casting results.

We can’t disclose future product offerings, but are consistently working to improve our existing offerings.


#27

Thanks Frew, I will await future developments with interest. The problem I have is that to get good results with castable takes a huge amount of time. 8 hours of curing along with a much longer burnout (almost twice as long as wax) plus letting flasks set for 8 hours and that means it takes several days to cast Formlabs resin whereas wax can be done in one day. Wax needs no curing, just 2 hours for plaster to set and an 8 hour burnout. So all the extra time involved to make resin work makes it less viable and less competitive than wax and the end result is still not as good. So I am really hoping that Formlabs will come up with a new and better formulation for castable soon.


#28

I have been using the bluecast resin. Have had perfect castings. Took a little while to get the burnout schedule correct. But no curing! I go from alcohol to alcohol to drying. 5 minutes each and do it 3 times. Then using r and r plasticast with an 9 hour burnout i have had great results. I can send the schedule if interested.

art


#29

Hi art, I would love to see that schedule, I would like to be able to use FL product, but I also need to have some decent castings, my email if needed is paul.bensel@yahoo.com
I appreciate it very much,
Paul


#30

I have tried the clear for investment casting with poor results. We tried two methods of burnout, one in the using the std burnout process, this cracked the shell. We also tried to use the autoclave, the part went like crazy paving and didn’t burn out at all…

A new resin that can be used for investment casting of engineering parts, wax like if possible for burnout in the auto clave please :slight_smile:


#31

HOw do you people know how much UV exposure has been adequate?

For example with High Temp, out of the bed pieces are pale yellow, but once cured they get a strong pale orange presence…

What about the Castable?

Yesterday we cured a piece for quite some time and the top of it was getting…brownish!? Is that overcuring? How do you determine castable has been cured “enough”?


#32

FL published a whitepaper on curing times, temperatures and UV wavelengths: https://formlabs.com/media/upload/How-Mechanical-Properties-of-SLA-3D-Prints-Are-Affected-by-UV-Curing.pdf

One thing to notice is how important heat during the cure is. Not only does the cure go faster, but in many cases, the final part strength will be 50-100% higher if cured at the recommended temperature (rather than room temperature / 25 C).


#33

I will talk for my business dental lab…
For my point of view, Formlabs cartable isn’t good because it’s way too complicate for a business to use on a daily process, takes too much time for poor casting results. Not to say the fit of the produced part isn’t good.
I have made a lot of trials with cartable, and compared with grey.
The fit and weight of the part is different. ( castable comes out thicker)
Dental framework or crowns are different from grey to castable and won’t fit on the model with cartable when they are just perfect with grey.
I cast about 4 to 8 flasks daily in my lab, all with grey.


#34

Paul

I experimented for months until i got this schedule which works for me. It is a combination of the quick bluecast burnout and the longer one. Have had no issues since i went to this
Ramp 1 230
Temp 1 300 F
Hold 2 hour
Ramp 2 1050
Temp 2 1375F
Hold 4 hour (very important for this long!)
Ramp3 -450
Temp 900F
Hold 2 hour
I start the flask heat up when the temp gets to 900. Takes about 25 minutes till casting temp
I put the flask in sideways in the oven to allow the gas to escape.


#35

Art , thank you very much , both you and @katkramer have been extremely helpful, I’m not sure how FL is going to handle this issue, I’m glad that I don’t have the dissatisfied clients they have, they will at some point understand that they are simply another tool in our tool box, and if the tool doesn’t function for jewelry manufacturing, we are going to find one that does. In the mean time I’ve got a client that I need to… ,LOL, satisfy or they are going to go somewhere else.
When I get done with this gal I’m going to begin using the Bluecast resin in my FL printer.
Thank you both very much for sharing, I will post the results.
paul


#36

Paul

Just cast this using the burnout schedule i posted. Bluecast resin, no uv post cure . tru silver casting grain from hoover and strong. No pitting or issues and a 41 dwt casting.

art

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