# Silicone PDMS layer - possible to replace PDMS without replacing whole resin tray? **URL:** \ **Category:** Form 1/1+\ **Created:** [September 10, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450 "2013-09-10T17:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JasonSpiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@JasonSpiller](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/JasonSpiller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 10:02am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/21 "2014-02-15T10:02:02Z")
Hi Monger Did you ever try the muve teflon coating? I have just ordered some. ---
**Author:** ![MongerDesigns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@MongerDesigns](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/MongerDesigns)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/22 "2014-02-15T18:05:00Z")
Hey Jason, Haven’t tried it. But I read that the teflon may not be ideal for a peel mechanism type printer. Let us know how it goes for you. ---
**Author:** ![MisterForm1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MisterForm1](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/MisterForm1)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/23 "2014-03-05T14:12:55Z")
If machine does auto leveling, then why the silicone has to be a certain thickness? Also why it has to be in liquid shape as it can be soft transparent kind of mat. And my last concerns are: if soft silicone has to be thereto make sure plastic is attached to the build platfom, not the resin tank. Can the resin tank be made out of solid material, but polished and build platform may have some holes and rough finish? I am going to patent these ideas, so when I make my own machine Form1 is out of business. ---
**Author:** ![FabienJOUAULT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@FabienJOUAULT](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/FabienJOUAULT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/24 "2014-05-23T19:00:51Z")
@ Jason Spiller: Did you get any success working with the MUVE teflon coating? As Formlabs is still shipping spare parts from the USA for Europe, I need to find a reliable solution for this foggy VAT! ---
**Author:** ![Cesar\_Rullier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/cesar_rullier/32/432_2.png) [@Cesar\_Rullier](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Cesar_Rullier)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/25 "2014-09-12T11:54:37Z")
great thread. So does this really work on the form1s? ---
**Author:** ![geobot3d](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/geobot3d/32/18090_2.png) [@geobot3d](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/geobot3d)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/26 "2014-09-15T18:34:14Z")
> [@BrianMartinez](#): > > 88mL of Sylgard 184 in a 10:1 ratio I am curious as well. I’ve had my first really bad print where I could barely get the failed resin off the bottom of the tank. This particular tank has been used for quite a few prints and so I’m assuming the stickiness is an indication of its age & its need for replacement or ‘retreatment’. If folks have had success with the Slygard formulate, I’m inclined to give it a try (otherwise, this particular tank is garbage anyway - no?) thanks for the help! Jeff ---
**Author:** ![KevinHolmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ec8ea/32.png) [@KevinHolmes](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/KevinHolmes)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/27 "2014-09-15T19:02:02Z")
Yes it works - I’ve resurfaced tanks 3 or 4 times using Sylgard 184 so far when the PDMS gets cloudy. It’s easy enough - removing the old PDMS is as easy as stabbing and peeling with a fork. Maybe slide a razor down the sides first. The only tricky part is getting the new PDMS to set level; either you need a dead level surface to put the tank on and leave it covered for 24 hours, or you put it in an oven at 50C for 3/4 hours and level the tank afterwards as per [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB9OeCxT04U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB9OeCxT04U) ---
**Author:** ![CourtlandtGross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CourtlandtGross](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/CourtlandtGross)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/28 "2014-09-15T22:21:41Z")
I get things sticking to the silicone ALL the time. I don’t understand how you are supposed to unstick stray parts withou touching the silicon layer. I dont understand why the instructions show that it is safe to use the metal scraper on layer, but not your fingers. seems weird to me. ---
**Author:** ![KenCitron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/kencitron/32/1741_2.png) [@KenCitron](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/KenCitron)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/29 "2014-09-16T01:31:12Z")
Just ordered my Form!+ a couple weeks ago. Right now I am costing the parts out with build tray and bottle of resin as one unit. Though it adds a good amount to the cost it seems the only safe way rather than waste material. What might be good is to be able to return a used tray to have it refurbished. Not sure how possible that is but seems less wasteful than just tossing the trays in the rubbish. Personally I would be a little leery about doing the coating myself since it seems so critical. How would you remove the remaining material? How do you coat the surface again since its in a tray. Just a sheet you could use a coating rod. As some sort of tape you would have to deal with bubbles, as a liquid sprayed it would be really difficult to control the thickness over the surface. I am surprised that you can’t zero the Form1 out, to me that should be fairly easy to do even if you use a thickness gauge or dial depth indicator. There are electrical contact devices also out that are commonly used in CNC mills to zero out cutters on stock. These simply clip on and are easily removed after calibration. Software wise it should be really easy for them to have zero adjustable. ---
**Author:** ![LeeFields](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/leefields/32/637_2.png) [@LeeFields](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/LeeFields)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/30 "2014-09-17T21:59:36Z")
Im going to give this a go as I have a large pile of spent tanks now. I do resin and silicone casting so have a dead level surface set up and a vacuum degasing chamber, so can hot box it for quick setting. Problem is, Im in the UK and Sylguard isn’t available here, so I would need to get some imported. Does anyone know of a suitable alternative in the UK? I did search but drew a blank. ---
**Author:** ![JasonSpiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f14d63/32.png) [@JasonSpiller](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/JasonSpiller)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/31 "2014-09-17T22:28:32Z")
I bought some from eBay, it was imported from the US though. I’m hoping to fix up 6 tanks next week after I build a level platform to hold the tanks. ---
**Author:** ![KlausLeitl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/klausleitl/32/58_2.png) [@KlausLeitl](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/KlausLeitl)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/32 "2014-09-18T06:51:40Z")
@LeeFields You could try this. It works for me. And you need no vacuum: [http://www.acc-silicones.com/content/products/encapsulation-coating/qsil216.ashx](http://www.acc-silicones.com/content/products/encapsulation-coating/qsil216.ashx) ---
**Author:** ![KevinHolmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ec8ea/32.png) [@KevinHolmes](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/KevinHolmes)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:21am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/33 "2014-09-18T07:21:02Z")
I also bought it from ebay imported from US - ebay seller mlsolar. ---
**Author:** ![LeeFields](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/leefields/32/637_2.png) [@LeeFields](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/LeeFields)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/34 "2014-09-18T07:57:36Z")
The main issue in the UK is that all the supply companies are trade and deal in bulk only. I’ve seen something at Bentley Chemicals that may do the trick but I’ll need to order some to try. ---
**Author:** ![KevinHolmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ec8ea/32.png) [@KevinHolmes](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/KevinHolmes)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/35 "2014-09-18T08:16:49Z")
@LeeFields - you have something against using ebay as mentioned? from memory took less than 2 weeks to arrive from states. > **[Dow Corning Sylgard 184 Solar Cell / Solar Panel Encapsulation Kit Fresh Product...](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sylgard-184-Solar-Cell-Solar-Panel-Encapsulation-Kit-/180518954584?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a07c4a658)** > > This kit will cover a large panel or several smaller panels depending on how thick you put it on. - ONE kit of Dow Corning Sylgard 184. The Leader in DIY Solar Cells, Solar Panels and Solar Components! | eBay! ---
**Author:** ![VinceErb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/vinceerb/32/20_2.png) [@VinceErb](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/VinceErb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 9:14am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/36 "2014-09-18T09:14:35Z")
Bought mine from mlsolar also but direct from their website was cheaper than ebay. [http://shop.mlsolar.com/Sylguard-SG1K.htm](http://shop.mlsolar.com/Sylguard-SG1K.htm) I don’t about for other countries though. I let mine sit covered for 4 or 5 days on a perfect level spot on my bench and have had great results every time. It’s much softer than formlabs so it tears easier but it doesnt get laser burn anywhere near as much. ---
**Author:** ![LeeFields](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/leefields/32/637_2.png) [@LeeFields](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/LeeFields)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/37 "2014-09-18T10:34:18Z")
I have no problem ordering from the US Ebay at all. Its just that I use my machine professionally and will go through a decent amount (a tank-2 tanks a week) the postage is quite high coming from the US and UK customs stick a huge amount of tax on as well. So basically were looking more than double if it gets stopped and invoiced by HMRC. ---
**Author:** ![KevinHolmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ec8ea/32.png) [@KevinHolmes](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/KevinHolmes)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/38 "2014-09-18T11:30:04Z")
@LeeFields - That’s a lot of tanks - how many prints are you getting before PDMS clouding per tank? I think I was was getting at least a dozen for larger prints and more for smaller ones. What resins are you using? I suspect even the Formlabs resins cloud the PDMS at different rates for different colours - the white seemed much worse than grey or clear. Looking on the dow corning website they list two UK distributors and one only seems to sell 250gms without a listed price, the other [http://www.univarsc.com/plist/Dow-Corning--Sylgard--184-Kit/184S1.1](http://www.univarsc.com/plist/Dow-Corning--Sylgard--184-Kit/184S1.1) sells 2 kg for about £220 including VAT and delivery - which is a bit more expensive than US version I think. Quick googling on the QSil216 mentioned by Klaus shows it’s priced similarly - although 5kg packs seem a little bit cheaper - still £400 though; [http://uk.farnell.com/acc-silicones/qsil-216-5-5kg/optical-clr-silicone-encaps/dp/1667371](http://uk.farnell.com/acc-silicones/qsil-216-5-5kg/optical-clr-silicone-encaps/dp/1667371) ---
**Author:** ![JoshK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4da419/32.png) [@JoshK](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/JoshK)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/39 "2014-09-18T13:36:45Z")
How many tanks can that re-coat? ---
**Author:** ![LeeFields](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/leefields/32/637_2.png) [@LeeFields](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/LeeFields)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450/40 "2014-09-20T00:23:59Z")
Many thanks Kevin. I’m starting to form some statistics based on layer numbers from all of this. Pretty much printing 24/7 at the moment. Things are starting to shift as I read more about massaging the PMS, model orientation and everything else Ive been reading on these forums. So far I’ve found that, with at least one failure, I as getting about 5K layers before failure in a specific region. Thats on my new Form1+, my original lasted 2 weeks before it failed completely. Im adding up the layers of each print before I announce the tank deadened not with wasting resin on a big print. I’ll use that tank for smaller stuff I can drop around the fogged areas. One thing I have absolutely noticed is that if you have a failed print on a long object and goes un checked, fogging is a certainty. Ive had brand new tanks killed over night. [Previous page](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/silicone-pdms-layer-possible-to-replace-pdms-without-replacing-whole-resin-tray/450.md?page=3)