# Preform model orientation always zeroes **URL:** \ **Category:** Form 1/1+\ **Created:** [March 29, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619 "2016-03-29T18:33:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Philipp\_Ludewig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/philipp_ludewig/32/6973_2.png) [@Philipp\_Ludewig](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Philipp_Ludewig)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2016, 6:33pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/1 "2016-03-29T18:33:12Z")
Hi there, I noticed that the model orientation always resets to zero after changing it. As an example, I rotated my part 45°, after touching the orientation tab again, it shows the rotation as zero. This has worked perfectly with some preform version from last year. But since the problem hasn’t gotten solved since the latest few updates, I have to ask: Is this a bug, or a feature? ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/2X/9/9f52cf6af436554f3e3620c815c25b20ba167104.png) ---
**Author:** ![ScottBarbour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@ScottBarbour](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/ScottBarbour)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/2 "2016-03-30T19:30:25Z")
I have noticed that too, and it is annoying! ---
**Author:** ![MattKeeter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/mattkeeter/32/12053_2.png) [@MattKeeter](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/MattKeeter)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/3 "2016-03-30T20:01:15Z")
Check out this thread for an discussion of relative vs absolute rotation: > [@Preform orientation suggestions](http://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-orientation-suggestions/4844/2): > > Hi Miroslav, Thanks for the well-thought-out and detailed feedback. The main reason that we got rid of persistently visible global rotation angles is that their behavior is confusing. For one thing, the order in which the rotations are applied affects the final orientation of the model. Furthermore, because the rotations are applied one after the other, modifications in one of the fields can seem to behave incorrectly – for instance, changing the X angle value could seem to rotate the model … Also, see this discussion back when Preform displayed absolute angles (and gimbal lock led to confusing situations): > [@Orientation axes are completely borked](http://forum.formlabs.com/t/orientation-axes-are-completely-borked/4048): > > The orientation axes are completely and utterly broken, and apparently were designed and implemented without any logic or testing whatsoever. Q: Why would both the X and Z entry boxes rotate the part the exact same way!!!??? Q: Why would the numerical entries change inexplicably to other (often with 2 decimal places defined) random numbers after leaving the dialog and then coming back to it!!!??? Q: Why does a user have to wait while you calculate and display the graphic orientation with each… ---
**Author:** ![Philipp\_Ludewig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/philipp_ludewig/32/6973_2.png) [@Philipp\_Ludewig](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Philipp_Ludewig)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/4 "2016-03-30T21:08:45Z")
Hi, Thanks for digging through the forum, I can see why global rotation is turned off. However, maybe the problem could get a better fix. I often print personalized parts that are identical except for a name imprint for example. After having played around to find the best orientation, I print it and know for sure that this orientation works. Now the problem is that there is no way of finding out the orientation so I can replicate it with the next parts. Somehow maybe there could be a better solution to this? ---
**Author:** ![ChristopherBarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/christopherbarr/32/645_2.png) [@ChristopherBarr](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/ChristopherBarr)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/5 "2016-03-30T22:15:35Z")
Hey @Philipp_Ludewig Yes, it went from broken to attempting to hide the brokenness. I simply cannot wrap my head around it why it’s apparently so complex or unfixable. ruhro, I can feel that gasket starting to let go… again… An object is inserted, and lands on the platform. **BOINK!** At that point, Preform should say OK, the part is now at zero,zero,zero rotation relative to the global space defined by the build platform - e.g it’s surface defines the XY plane @ zero Z, and perpendicular to this plane defines the positive Z axis. That’s it. That’s the only coordinate system, and it **DOES NOT CHANGE!** The user should now be able to rotate their parts around any GLOBALLY UNCHANGING axis to orient the part however they want to, and the numbers in the boxes stay _exactly_ as they’ve been set. Sure, should Preform attempt to use the coordinate system axes embedded in the stl or obj when it imports the part, and drop it in so it’s initially aligned similarly to the active coordinate system in the CAD program at the time it was exported? Absolutely. But that’s where any semblence of local, embedded-in-the-part CAD coordinate system needs to end! **Now the part is in the _Printer’s coordinate system_, which is fixed relative to the platform**. All transforms of the part must now be relative to the Printer’s coordinate system. Can someone [@Formlabs](https://forum.formlabs.com/groups/Formlabs) please explain why this is not **obviously** the correct thing to do, or why it’s apparently impossible to do? Would you expect a physical part to somehow retain it’s CAD coordinate system in the real world? If so, should it fall according to it’s CAD Z axis when dropped regardless of the orientation in which you’re holding it? Of course not. Preform’s environment represents the real world here, therefore objects in it must observe and be governed by it’s coordinate system. -C ---
**Author:** ![Philipp\_Ludewig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/philipp_ludewig/32/6973_2.png) [@Philipp\_Ludewig](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Philipp_Ludewig)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/6 "2016-03-31T06:47:55Z")
Well, the thing is that a body fixed coordinate system has one painful feature: the final part orientation depends on the order of the axis rotation. If you rotate something 1. +90 deg X 2. +90deg Y 3. +90deg Z it points somewhere else than if you rotated it 1. +90 deg Y 2. +90deg Z 3. +90deg X However, a possible fix for my problem to recreate an orientation is maybe to right click on the part and see ONE possible rotation solution that lead to my current orientation. That way I can replicate the orientation. Or did I get it wrong here? ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Gillespie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@Walter\_Gillespie](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Walter_Gillespie)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/7 "2016-04-14T18:03:23Z")
I just posted on this also. This is screwy. Why is it even there if it is made not to work? That’s poor software development. I can understand for some this might be an issue but for me with the very small items I print Auto Orientation is NOT acceptable at all. yes, fix the X, Y and Z issue but don’t limit the program for all to make a few happy. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/uploads/formlabs/original/3X/5/b/5bc2bdf993ff27c2e0eecab5010b25626fbb327a.png) [@system](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/preform-model-orientation-always-zeroes/7619/8 "2016-04-30T00:03:33Z")
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