based on what I read, it seems like the solution would be to change the tank more frequently than you would using FL resin?
If the resin were indeed more volatile, then yes of course that’s the prudent thing to do. But how is the user base to know the needed frequency of those changes? (Formlabs at least give recommendations.) I dídn’t ask them for a solution, but information on their product. My point was the way DF3D acted when questions were politely asked.
I agree those are concerns and would be equally wary of purchasing this resin (literally stumbled on this post last night) but would cut them a bit of slack simply cuz the “v2” of their resin just came out like a few weeks ago or something (based on the time the posts talking about it) and based on what was written here and I think there was one other thread talking about it I’d give it a shot. I guess another good thing is that they did offer a solution.
But yeah, glad to see you asking about that cuz I had no idea wtf PDMS was lol
You’re right, they should have that kind of info on hand but again literally their website is kinda busted, having to go on faith that what they say is true, they supposedly did a bunch of print tests with those tiki huts and if there was a problem I would also ASSUME they would give some warning to the user about using this resin from the v1 > v2.
So my take from this would be if I’m going to use their resin to make sure to use as much as I can meaning printing within something like 2-4 weeks if possible and when the cartridge is empty, clean out the left over resin from the tank itself so it doesn’t eat away at the adhesive (assuming you are going to buy the universal cartridge by protoART so that you can use closed mode).
We use Formlabs Grey V4 setting. We’re doing just loads of model production right here in the USA with the Great Form2. Of course we absolutely cannot use the Formlabs material as we’d go broke Just too expensive for production use Im afraid ( great resin by the way just too expensive ). We’re selling ALOT of the DFGREYV2: we take the negative trolling of this thread as a compliment for sure. We offer a return policy if the material doesn’t work for users,
We are pumping out models with the DFGREYV2. Check out this Tiger tank: 60 sets 1/30th scale. Made in the USA! So cool. The DFGREYV2 working like an absolute champ! We’re so proud of our chemist, check out the detail, and strong too. And a little prop to FORMLABS: I’ve got a machine on year three still printing 20 hours a day like a champ. FORM2’s rock I gotta say.
Those are amazing results and I hope to get the same level after my order arrives.
It sounds like you work for DF, yes?
If so would you be able to answer @JoatrashFX question about the PDMS on the resin tanks and some of the other questions asked about your product on this thread regarding DFGREYV2? That would greatly be appreciated.
In regards to the PDMS, I wasn’t actually referring to the burn-life wear of the PDMS (which, naturally, would conform to FL Grey standards if it uses the same setting) but the fact that resins stored in a VAT for lengths of time will cause the glue holding the PDMS in place to dissolve, leaking resin onto the glass underneath:
We don’t leave the material in the VAT for any length of time as the machines are working 20 hours a day. So that’s a tough question. We haven’t experienced any dissolving of the PDMS, not at all. The odor in V2 is virtually non-existent. V1 was quite smelly.
There were also the other questions I had about how strong the resin is in comparison with others:
There is a nylon additive my chemist reported adding to the formulation so the parts are beyond strong and have zero brittleness unlike Formlabs Grey. That being said they use a different formulation to ensure the straightness of parts or rather to limit warpage. Our resin has slightly poorer warpage properties. We overcome this by printing directly on the build plate. So there are tradeoffs.
and information on stability over time and glass temp (important for storage and longevity of printed items).
**We’ve seen no degrading in UV cured parts over time. But we do paint them.
**My apologies for not answering them at first we’re quite busy here.
Thanks for your part answer to my question.
My question ("What profile do you use with this resin? What makes it twice as quick?) was with regards what you said (as quoted below)
Details as reported by other users are super tight at .1 micron layer: awesome… I did a side by side with Formlabs Grey: no need to wait 12 hours for the same detail taking just 6 hours on the .1 micron layer setting with DIGITAL FORGE. Great prints we are supper happy with V2.
What you have said seems incredible, you are saying that in open mode using the Grey profile of formlabs your resin prints twice as fast as the formlabs resin. Wow thats incredible!! After all the resin profile sets the exposure times as it controls the laser power / speed of transit. I cant quite see that its going to be faster if you used the same profile for both the Formlabs material and the DF resin in open mode…
You later say:
DIGITAL FORGE V2 PRINTS FASTER THAN AN OTHER RESIN! One of the coolest things I’v noticed with the new DF V2 Grey is that if I print on .1 micron layer there are no build lines, no joke: none. Its the same as building on .05 micron layer. I’ve basically cut my print time in half! My most intricate parts can easily be built using .1 micron layer now. Awesome!
Somethings not quite right.
Where can you view an MSDS for the DF resin?
Think what he is saying is they were building at .05 and now they were able to get good results at .1 layer thickness. So that would cut down the print time considerably.
I bought a few liters of the digital forge grey and did email them with a few questions before I started printing and they seemed pretty helpful. I started some prints last night and have a few pieces finished, however, I am going to wait until after a few more prints before I report back later with photos of prints, what I think of it overall, etc…
It will be good to hear and see some test results from a user - rather than the supplier
One thing I would like to ask is how do I know if I got V2 or V1? You say that the odor is virtually non existent with V2, yet the stuff I have is actually stronger odor than any of the formlabs resins I have tried.
Did you get a SDS for the material - I asked on here and by email for one, yet they have remained silent about the SDS.
Yeah this is what came with it.
Honestly the smell is appalling and even remains after washing it in an alcohol bath twice and leaving it to sit outside. However, I will say that the print quality so far actually is pretty good. I printed my parts directly on the build platform as suggested and with internal supports on large pieces and they came out pretty good. I also tried one part without any supports and with the shape parts I was printing there was mild deformation on the one. This does not seem to occur as long as I use internal supports.
Other solid models I have printed directly on the build platform and with no supports and they came out great though. ![3|666x500]
The material is definitely not brittle like formlabs grey and is much more durable, it does have some slight give to it so it will bend a little if you try without breaking. They mentioned there was nylon added to it and it does seem to go with the properties of it. I think this resin could be great for prototyping parts but as for production? For one thing, If I cant get rid of this strong smell on all of the parts then I cant see its value in production.
Thanks for that - I think I shall avoid it, it looks very risky with regards toxicity compared to other resins which use much safer formulations. The residual smell you mention may be resin within the printed part that has not cured properly. That will be just as toxic as the uncured resin.
I was hoping to see a proper SDS rather what you had sent you - that is an SDS that conforms to the relevant safety standards. If you suffer adverse effects then that helps the doctors identify what has caused it. Something like the Form Labs SDS for grey: https://archive-media.formlabs.com/upload/Grey-SDS_lQLbyNE.pdf
The one hazard symbol on there is extremely worrying - that is:
Its exactly what it says - A SERIOUS HEALTH HAZARD…
The health hazards are no different than any other 3RD party or 1st party resins. You simply don’t want to inhale or touch it without gloves when it hasn’t been post processed. So nothing new there really. The health symbols are scary because we wanted to really grab folks attention so they would ACTUALLY read the warnings TW Electronics simply needs to post cure it and let it dry to vacate any residual smell: its just that simple. We’ve been using DF Grey for two years creating loads of products ( www.thecollectorsshowcase.com ). No matter what material your using, lets face it, its messy business. But its the early stages of a great industry and Im sure things will improve in the years ahead. Anyhow Im glad to hear of the success with the printing! enjoy the resin. Post cure it, its half the price of FL material so you can make some dough with your parts? I hope
There was no way for us to make any money doing batch manufacturing with the FL material prices. No way. I tried to negotiate with them on drums, pales they weren’t listening trust me. So we formulated our own material and have created so many cool projects. We typically do runs of 50-100 products using Form2 printers. Formlabs really seems to have no interest in scaling the material for small batch manufacturing on a serious scale. But with DFGREY its possible to do just that. It seems some of the other 3D printer manufacturers may see the light soon enough, or, I hate to say it: China companies will. Anyhow some pics of our batch runs using DFGREY ( no smell once they dry and cure
did you use it in combination with the universal cartridge? It would be awesome to know how this resin handles when used on something other than open mode.
I printed in open mode. I did not have any parts that were over 100mL so it never had to stop for a refill. I simply topped off vat in between prints. Print quality is pretty good overall I would say. Even with no raft it adheres to build platform pretty well but I didn’t have much trouble removing them. They are very strong parts so I wasn’t worried about breaking them on removal. Unlike with something such as formlabs rigid resin where its very brittle and adheres to the build plate like crazy and can easily break on removal. The digital forge resin is very tough and Id recommend it if you need something more durable than formlabs grey. However, the smell as I said… Make sure you can use it in a closed room somewhere away from you. I did wash and cure my parts and the ones I printed about 12 hours ago still do have minimal smell to them but only noticeable if you hold the parts close to you. Perhaps one more wash would eliminate the smell completely? I can give it a try. Overall I really cant say too much bad about the resin as far as quality goes, just don’t like the smell. I’ll give it a shot for some more time though and see what happens, If I can eliminate it completely it should be good to go.
I do agree it would be tough to do manufacturing and profit while using formlabs resins. I did also negotiate with them and the most I could get down to was 5% off orders of $2,000 or more, and 10% off orders of $5,000 or more as far as resin goes. That’s still pretty minimal discounts especially when also charged for sales tax and for shipping… It does get expensive. Which is why I gave your resin a try. Its certainly not the worst resin ive used and is actually pretty good for the most part. I’ll give it a shot for some more time and see how it goes.