# Form 3 vs. Form 2 Faceoff! **URL:** \ **Category:** Form 3/3+\ **Created:** [November 22, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489 "2019-11-22T01:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![larsenstephen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/larsenstephen/32/12984_2.png) [@larsenstephen](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/larsenstephen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/21 "2019-12-15T07:14:11Z")
Wow. Those prints are deeply worrisome. We’re using standard gray resin and don’t see any layer shifting or warping. Could the problem be specific to certain resins? {Edit: our Form 3 is experiencing the same kinds of layer shifting and surface bulging on vertical and curved surfaces. FL support reports future firmware updates will address this issue.] Our Form 3 has begun having WiFi connectivity issues after a week of stable connectivity. Comparatively, our Form 2 has had a stable connection for months. The Form 3 shows that it is on the network with a valid IP address. Preform does not see the Form 3 but does see the Form 2. After Preform reported the Form 3 had disconnected from WiFi at some point during the night, we rebooted the printer and re-opened Preform. Preform briefly recognized the Form 3 long enough to upload a job but then reported the Form 3 had disconnected again shortly afterwards. We have found that we can fix the problem by disabling WiFi on the Form 3 touchscreen then re-enabling it. For whatever reason, Preform then sees the Form 3. Oddly, Preform shows the Form 2 is connected and has stayed connected to the same network the whole time. Both the Form 2 and Form 3 are in the same room but on a different floor than the computer running Preform. The Form 3’s touchscreen reports that it sees the network (and others) and that the signal strength is “good”. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![billb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/billb/32/5587_2.png) [@billb](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/billb)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/22 "2019-12-15T11:17:55Z")
My Form 2 has dropped the WiFi connection randomly over the last 3 years, and now the Form 3 is acting the same way. I’ve never been able to pin point a cause, but thought it may be interference from other networks, atmospherics or even cosmic rays. In the end I’ve just accepted it as one of the quirks of WiFi. ---
**Author:** ![Ante\_Vukorepa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/ante_vukorepa/32/18125_2.png) [@Ante\_Vukorepa](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Ante_Vukorepa)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/23 "2019-12-15T12:50:37Z")
> [@larsenstephen](#): > > Wow. Those prints are deeply worrisome. We’re using standard gray resin and don’t see any layer shifting or warping. Could the problem be specific to certain resins? @rkagerer posted his cup objects (as .form files) in the first post of this thread. Can you, perhaps, try printing them and see what you get? I did, in grey, and the warping is there, pretty much at same heights and in the same way he’s getting them. ---
**Author:** ![DoggieDoc83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DoggieDoc83](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DoggieDoc83)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/24 "2019-12-16T02:54:01Z")
> [@Ante\_Vukorepa](#): > > > [@larsenstephen](#): > > > > Wow. Those prints are deeply worrisome. We’re using standard gray resin and don’t see any layer shifting or warping. Could the problem be specific to certain resins? > > @rkagerer posted his cup objects (as .form files) in the first post of this thread. > Can you, perhaps, try printing them and see what you get? > > I did, in grey, and the warping is there, pretty much at same heights and in the same way he’s getting them. Those print files are actually mine 😃 But anyway, just having a little fun in the midst of this extremely annoying prolem. > [@rkagerer](#): > > Updated my Form 3’s firmware to the latest 1.4.4 (automatic failed, but manual update worked) and reprinted the cups: > > [https://i.imgur.com/xVRpTF3.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xVRpTF3.jpg) > > Both of these are from the Form 3. The layer shift ripples are still present. Preform 3.2.2, layer height 50um. I hope we don’t have to wait another month for another firmware update to test :-(. Yeah I reprinted the lens and the dome with the new firmware and there was no difference whatsoever. As a matter of fact after the update the lens completely failed during one of the prints. ---
**Author:** ![Ante\_Vukorepa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/ante_vukorepa/32/18125_2.png) [@Ante\_Vukorepa](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/Ante_Vukorepa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/25 "2019-12-16T04:26:36Z")
> [@DoggieDoc83](#): > > Those print files are actually mine 😃 But anyway, just having a little fun in the midst of this extremely annoying prolem. > > rkagerer: Ah, sorry. Either way, i’d really like anyone claiming they don’t get warping print them, as it’s geometry-dependent. ---
**Author:** ![DoggieDoc83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DoggieDoc83](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DoggieDoc83)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/26 "2019-12-16T13:57:08Z")
> [@Ante\_Vukorepa](#): > > > [@DoggieDoc83](#): > > > > Those print files are actually mine 😃 But anyway, just having a little fun in the midst of this extremely annoying prolem. > > > > rkagerer: > > Ah, sorry. > Either way, i’d really like anyone claiming they don’t get warping print them, as it’s geometry-dependent. I understand, I was just providing some levity 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![donnie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/donnie/32/15493_2.png) [@donnie](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/donnie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/27 "2019-12-22T16:34:56Z")
> [@DoggieDoc83](#): > > Yeah I reprinted the lens and the dome with the new firmware and there was no difference whatsoever. As a matter of fact after the update the lens completely failed during one of the prints. Have you tried with the new firmware 3.2.3 from a couple days ago? I`ve got a print going just now. Fingers crossed. ---
**Author:** ![DoggieDoc83](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DoggieDoc83](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/DoggieDoc83)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/28 "2019-12-22T17:13:01Z")
> [@donnie](#): > > > [@DoggieDoc83](#): > > > > Yeah I reprinted the lens and the dome with the new firmware and there was no difference whatsoever. As a matter of fact after the update the lens completely failed during one of the prints. > > Have you tried with the new firmware 3.2.3 from a couple days ago? > > I`ve got a print going just now. Fingers crossed. No not yet… I’ll get it downloading right away ---
**Author:** ![jbrownson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@jbrownson](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/jbrownson)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/29 "2019-12-22T19:10:30Z")
I seem to always discover new firmware/preform releases here in the forums a few days after release by reading some random thread. Does anybody know if there is there a way to get notified? ---
**Author:** ![donnie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/donnie/32/15493_2.png) [@donnie](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/donnie)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/30 "2019-12-22T20:19:20Z")
> [@jbrownson](#): > > Does anybody know if there is there a way to get notified? Would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![darbyvet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@darbyvet](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/darbyvet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/31 "2019-12-22T20:50:53Z")
According to the firmware release notes the printing improvement is for grey resin at 100 microns . ---
**Author:** ![rkagerer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/439d5e/32.png) [@rkagerer](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/rkagerer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/32 "2019-12-23T06:20:50Z")
> [@darbyvet](#): > > According to the firmware release notes the printing improvement is for grey resin at 100 microns You mean _Preform_ release notes. > [@jbrownson](#): > > Does anybody know if there is there a way to get notified? You could always set up a monitoring service to notify you when the [Preform release notes](https://support.formlabs.com/s/article/PreForm-Release-Notes) or [Firmware release notes](https://support.formlabs.com/s/article/Firmware-Release-Notes) pages change. I just set up alerts on [trackly.io](https://trackly.io/pricing), which watches up to 3 pages for free. ---
**Author:** ![SolarMill](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/solarmill/32/13906_2.png) [@SolarMill](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/SolarMill)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2020, 4:01am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/33 "2020-02-07T04:01:58Z")
> [@DoggieDoc83](#): > > Here are my latest prints…a smal lens and small hollow dome… awful layering/ **warping** … whatever you want to call it. Been happening in everything i print. I really like your usage of the term _warping_ to describe what’s happening here. I think that’s a much better descriptor than layer shift, as shift implies a discrete, but permanent change in x/y position. In all the examples I have seen, the artifacts appear to be regions of distortion or potentially erosion, but often times the outer bounds of the part are congruous, and usually the print continues on without indicating a true loss of position. It also usually seems to happen for at least several layers at a time before returning to normal, so it affects more than one layer before subsiding. ---
**Author:** ![larsenstephen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/larsenstephen/32/12984_2.png) [@larsenstephen](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/larsenstephen)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/34 "2020-03-25T14:44:14Z")
“Warping” does seem to be a better description. ---
**Author:** ![NikolaosBeratli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NikolaosBeratli](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/NikolaosBeratli)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/35 "2020-04-16T19:46:35Z")
Very useful post. The parts appear to be more clear on the Form 3 but there are issues with shift lines that could be a problem for some users. I would like to print a small fluid reservoir (50mm height, 50 mm diameter) in clear resin on the Form 3. Can anyone on this forum do this? I will pay for the part and shipping. ---
**Author:** ![alen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@alen](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/alen)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/36 "2020-04-16T21:13:00Z")
yo puedo ---
**Author:** ![rkagerer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/439d5e/32.png) [@rkagerer](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/rkagerer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/37 "2020-04-26T02:39:50Z")
Since my original post, Formlabs has released several software and firmware updates. Sifting through the release notes, I tallied improvements for: Black: 25μm, 50μm (twice), 100μm White: 50μm, 100μm Tough V5: 50μm, 100μm Dental Model: 100μm Castable Wax: 50μm Grey: 100μm (especially small features) So I decided to do some fresh comparisons in Black. The items below were all printed at the same time at 50μm, using firmware rc-1.5.17-573 on the Form 3 and 1.19.15 on the Form 2, with Preform 3.4.5, and default support settings for each printer. They were cured for ~30 mins at 60°C in the Form Cure. [![](https://i.imgur.com/19zWOIY.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/19zWOIY.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/yO0rWNR.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/yO0rWNR.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/zyMYGEw.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/zyMYGEw.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/BplMAUV.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/BplMAUV.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/RUR0Czh.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/RUR0Czh.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/nkqBhIs.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/nkqBhIs.jpg) One thing I noticed right off the bat is Black prints seem a little overcured on the Form 3. They were very difficult to remove from the build platform, and in most cases the raft cracked, leaving bits stuck to the platform. We really need a way to adjust build platform adhesion on the Form 3. You can also see the exposure difference on the surface texture. The really good news is, any rippling or shifting artifacts seem all but gone. The only place I noticed any, was in the front-right corner of the box on the last photo, and it was extremely faint. I was encouraged by this, and re-ran a few of the original prints in Clear (again, at 50μm, but I updated the Form 3 firmware to 1.6.2 in between this print and the last run). Note all of the prints below are from the Form 3: [![](https://i.imgur.com/LH3dTZw.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/LH3dTZw.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/Cf6R3NG.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/Cf6R3NG.jpg)[![](https://i.imgur.com/5JtBSqG.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/5JtBSqG.jpg) The rippling seems a little better, but is definitely still present for Clear. I hope Formlabs is close to releasing a Preform update targeting Clear, with similar fine tuning as Black and other resins have received. I’ll try again once I see that. ---
**Author:** ![donnie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex025/user_avatar/forum.formlabs.com/donnie/32/15493_2.png) [@donnie](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/donnie)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/38 "2020-04-27T00:51:58Z")
Thanks for the tests - without side by side its hard to tell, but it looks like the ripples are less deep? Still very obvious but a bit shallower? ---
**Author:** ![rkagerer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/439d5e/32.png) [@rkagerer](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/rkagerer)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/39 "2020-04-27T20:10:03Z")
I think that’s a fair description, yes. ---
**Author:** ![rkagerer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/439d5e/32.png) [@rkagerer](https://forum.formlabs.com/u/rkagerer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489/40 "2020-04-29T21:31:17Z")
I posted a detailed, side-by-side of @larsenstephen’s ship model in Black V4 here: > [@Bad prints out of brand New Form 3](http://forum.formlabs.com/t/bad-prints-out-of-brand-new-form-3/25346/269): > > Sorry to interrupt the tank discussion; I’ve got some good news. @larsenstephen sent me his ship bridge model and I printed it in Black on my Form 2 and [early 2019] Form 3. I’d say the results look great on both. Print settings: Form 2 Form 3 Resin Black V4 Black V4 Layer Height 50 μm 50 μm Preform 3.4.5 3.4.5 Firmware 1.19.15-220 1.6.2-576 Tank LT V1 Layers 903 918 Estimated Volume 8.07mL 8.44mL Estimated Time 5h 11m 4h 39m Actual Time 5h 49m\* 5h 13m \*My Form 2 h… [Previous page](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.formlabs.com/t/form-3-vs-form-2-faceoff/25489.md?page=3)