Form 1+ : What it should have been originally, not an "upgrade"


#1

I’m happy to see that Formlabs has addressed the issues that prevented successful large prints from the original Form1, but now in order for us to get a printer that works, you’re asking us to cough up another $750?  What about users of the current Form 1 that are having warranty issues time and time again? Will their machines be upgraded to the Form 1+ laser/galvanometers/peel motor free of charge?  Seeing as it’s only internal parts that are upgraded, and are in fact the parts that have been failing with way too much frequency, the customers with Form1 should be upgraded to the + version if Formlabs doesn’t want to see massive revolt and backlash from existing users. I for one will not be spending any more $ with Formlabs until my machine prints reliably and continuously. And the only way that will happen is to get upgraded internal mechanisms.

Anyone else feel this way?


#2

I’m a big fan of the Form 1 and because Formlabs’ excellent customer support, I certainly don’t regret making the purchase.

That said, having had one failed laser, I hope Formlabs will provide an optional upgrade path to the Form+ for original Form 1 users and KS backers. I"m a little hesitant about purchasing a whole new machine because of the cost but I would gladly pay a lesser fee to bring my existing machine up to the current specs.

I hope they can make that happen. :slight_smile:

G.


#3

Yeah, well, when you’re waiting for your fourth machine to arrive, then get back to this thread. One failed laser? That’s nothing.


#4

They don’t have a phone number and only have email conversations at a max speed of 4 days per reply. I still don’t have it back from repair and it took 6 months to arrive when I was told 3 months.  Come to find out today that they want a $750 “upgrade” fee to make the printer work as advertised!  I may not accept the delivery when it does come.


#5

Hello Matt,

I agree with you.

I think that all the users that wil send back the Form1 (because well knew issue - like happen in these last months) from today, should recive back the Form1+.

We can understand that problems can happen, especially for new hardware and new businness. But because the Form1+ will cost same as the Form1, and because this “+” upgrade is a BUGFIX release… the hardware upgrade shoud be automatic in case of the Form1 goes out of order, because that laser and galvos problems (that is a production problem).

I recently had my 3th machine and I hope it won’t stop to work. I check the laser beam with -diagnostic tool every 5 prints.

I hope that nothing will happen and that that all will flow fine. I hope to no need a substitution of the machine for the 4th time.

BUT if (again) the prints start to fail because the laser beam became a mess (lost focus or other), I GUESS that when I will send to FormLabs the machine, they will send me the hardware that they now can certify: the Form1+.

I don’t need new machine, I just need that the new laser and galvos system have the quality that we bought. A 20 print-and-then-die machine isn’t the one we bought in the last months.

I think that the FormLabs team is great one and they are really working to create a huge and robust community of users.

Retire the old Form1 hardware from market, and, piece after piece, replace the old machines with bugs (asking us to pay ONLY the delivery fee), will be the best policy and the best way to lead in the 3D printing panorama.

Customer care is too important to jump this opportunity to demostrate how serious is the company.

Best regards,

Mattia


#6

I agree with Mattia that the TEAM appears pretty good.  Now they need to work on customer support and using warranty to make our Form1’s work longer than 20 prints as advertised.


#7

I can only speak from my own experience of course–maybe I’ve been lucky but so far Formlabs has been very responsive to my inquiries and very helpful. Anyway, moving on…

So does an upgrade path to Form 1+ exist then? I don’t think I saw that mentioned in the blog entry, so just asking.

G.


#8

Ah, okay…just; found the upgrade info: http://formlabs.com/store/us/buy-upgrade/

G.


#9

After multiple returned printers, multiple wasted liters of expensive resin, countless wasted hours of struggling with this thing, all the times spending a week or two just to have a 3 minute conversation, etc… and now they expect me to pay $750 more to fix what they figured out they did wrong thanks to all of us paying to be beta testers. Un-f******-real!


#10

One things to keep in mind is that Formlabs has not stated that this upgrade will solve the issues we are all experiencing.

They say:

  • A higher-power second-generation laser system for faster print speeds
  • A redesigned galvanometer control system for more precise and accurate control
  • Re-engineered mechanical components for better wear and durability
  • A light-blocking injection-molded resin tank for better print consistency – allowing you to store your tanks outside the Form 1. The tank also comes with a stackable lid, helping you manage multiple resins more easily.

So for the third point we can read into it, but without any specifics, there is no guarantee that this upgrade will be the answer.

Formlabs has most likely known from the get go that we would encounter these problems, but has not commented specifically at all, until the last few months. This could very well be the fix to our problems, however, I feel that Formlabs will probably not comment one way or the other, except to say that the “durability is better” than before. Which, in my opinion, is fair so long as they keep repairing failed machines for free, which they have been doing a great job at.

I am already through 3 machines and plan to wait and see how the response is to the 1+ machines before I upgrade.

I am also very satisfied with my kickstarter support/purchase and feel that I’ve already gotten back what I expected from the machine.

Its not perfect, but I fully expected there to be many issues with the machine (which machine has none?) and fully expect many more issues in the future.

A free upgrade to new components sure would be nice though! :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

Have they said if the upgrade program is only available for a limited time?


#12

@Ben,

I would guess it would be around as long as the Form1+ exists since the parts are the same.

@Ready Go,

I for one don’t feel a need to be given a free Form1+, what I do expect is a free fix to the flaw of the Form1.  This could be just the new new laser with it’s power turned down to be compatible with the rest of the Form1 hardware.


#13

@JoshK I don’t expect it to be free either.

The real question is weather or not this will fix the problem we are having at all. And if so, how much better will it be?


#14

In theory any laser running at 1/4 of it’s potential would live way beyond it’s rated lifetime.


#15

Ive been silent about my issues but after hearing the recent announcements I feel I have to chime in.

After FIVE replacements I demanded my money back. Most of the issues I had like unfocussed lasers and unlevel trays could have been things quality tested at the factory but instead I was the one that had to devote countless of hours and resin on my dime to test and give feedback.

Out of a year of owning the machine, apart from doing test/trouble shooting prints, I managed ONE successful print which I am very proud of: https://support.formlabs.com/entries/27259543-Elephant-head-

Frustrating as it was, I can say that customer support was great. But in the end of the day, out of no fault of my own, I dont get to be part of the evolution of the Form1 and it bums me out…something that I helped funded in the first place.

Vent over. GG.


#16

I’ve also been silent with my issues and have just not been using my printer at all in the last 6 months, it’s like a giant conversation piece / paperweight at this point–yielding anything but perfect prints.  My experiences appear to be the same as everyone else, the first several prints were pretty great–nice resolution, sharp edges, the works.  However, the printing experience has deteriorated with failed print after failed print with supports not curing rigidly enough / fragmenting during peel, requiring attempt after attempt to yield an acceptable print.  Edges have lost their sharpness, squares printing as rectangular, circles printing as ovals, etc.

Seeing Formlabs release the Form 1+, you would think there would be reason to rejoice–but considering that the Form 1+ is a complete replacement to the Form 1 (in that the Form 1 is not being simultaneously sold alongside the Form 1+), it’s clear that the Form 1 was really just a Beta product with the Form 1+ being the final release.

Form 1 owners should in no way have to pay $750 to “upgrade” and receive a properly-functioning product.  The “upgrade” / repair should be offered at (hardware) cost as a service to the customers & supporters of the product–Formlabs should not be profiting off this upgrade given there’s clearly a material / design flaw.  It’s like a car company selling a lemon and not issuing a recall, requiring the owner to pay for all repairs (rental car included) out of pocket.  If you really wanted to be cynical, it’s nearly a planned obsolescence business model…

I don’t know what to say about the “new” product announcement really but demanding $750 for feature-wise: entirely the ability to print 50% faster is a joke.  I realize the faster print speed is a product of having a more powerful laser which was a necessary replacement regardless.  This is how the printer should have been from the start…  and it seems like Formlabs believes that too given that the Form 1+ is being offered at the same price as the “now obsolete” Form 1…


#17

I am just upset that I received my Printer on a Friday and then on Tuesday morning the Form 1+ pops up out of nowhere…for the same price!  I really feel a bit ripped off - especially after seeing these comments.  I would have gladly save my money for the newer/ish model, but I suppose FormLabs didn’t want any sales to pause for what sounds like warranty recall work to hit the new machines.  I for one want the option to have my Form1 retrofitted at no cost.


#18

After waiting 6 months for a Form 1. I get shipping notification of a form 1 and a promotional mail for the form1+ on the same day.

That just isn’t going to happen…


#19

I really think they should have just started shipping the newer units with the upgrades, and then offered upgrades to those that already had theirs.  That would have been a more consumer friendly thing to do.


#20

Same as Billy and Joanna, I just received my Form 1 a few weeks ago–brand new–but not a Form 1+. It really doesn’t seem right. They had told me not to expect it until June, then they had one in stock to send to me. I suppose I got the end of the inventory before they could announce the newer model. I’m feeling super gypped and sad right now.