I agree. Also, the last updates in software and firmware forced an update upon us due to our tinkering.
There is nothing wrong with @fantasy2 charging for his work as development and parts are a business expense. We need to maintain a more civil tone here than making subtle jabs at one another.
I think someone on here is way more full of themselves when it comes to understanding device security and DRM models than they should be.
How about this hypothetical… FormLabs could just decide to encrypt the entire contents of the chip and store a copy of the chip ID and checksum pair inside the printer as soon as you insert it. When a cartridge is loaded, the contents of the EEPROM is read and decrypted in the printer and the chip/internal table updated periodically. When a cartridge is first loaded that uses the old data spec, the printer converts it to the new spec and immediately writes the updated data back to eeprom then verifies it with an immediate read.
Failed write - fail the cartridge
Failed checksum comparison against internal - Fail the cartridge
Cartridge with old format that was previously converted - Fail the cartridge
No internet or cloud needed to lock you out and any attempt to manipulate the process results in a blacklisted cartridge that reports a fail. Oh, and since the new cartridges manufactured from that point forward utilize the fully encrypted spec, you are basically on a countdown timer until your “unstoppable” hack gets scrapped, perhaps at something like the resin shelf life cycle + 25% or so for good measure, thus killing your hack even if you do decide to go the route of spoofing the device IDs.
My point here is that the hubris of going on a manufacturer forum and telling folks that you have a plan for an unblockable hack while bashing someone for playing it (wisely) close to the vest is uncalled for and arrogant. All it serves to do is further motivate Formlabs to squash such efforts. The comparison of this to an old game console is about useless. Those platforms had no way to WRITE to the cartridges. The onewire device here is nothing more than a storage medium, so its not about the device at all in this case, its about managing the data format that is stored on it, and that is something Formlabs can most certainly change on the fly, so long as they maintain backwards compatibility for just long enough to allow previous generation cartridges to phase out.
Thank you. I fully agree.
There are still people using the ‘old’ device I made. They simply are not updating their form 2 anymore. There is no need really as all these 3rd party resins work perfectly on standard clear or grey V2 and V3 settings and the engineering resin which are mainly driving the updates are not really needed. After 2(I think?) year the form 2 is pretty bug free and runs fine.
Regarding the latest solution:
I wanted to let you all know that after a few months of work and testing by several people on the forum(thank you!), the modules are ready and I have them available for shipping right now.
They work great. I tested them with Photocentric 3D resin and others with ALW resins. Printing quality is much better and more accurate than in open mode.
Contact me for details: firstname.lastname@example.org
This topic seems to be getting quiet.
Did anyone do any more testing with 3rd party resins? There seem to be a lot of new resin manufacturers popping up the recent months. I’m still looking for a high temp resin that can withstand about 160 C and isn’t a brittle as formlabs’s resin but more close to a material like PBT, PPA, etc.
I’m interested in your 3rd party resin solution @fantasy2. I sent you a message via email.
Wow. I’ve been way out of the loop here for quite a while. Just binge-consumed this entire thread! Some really amazing work by everyone here. My hat is off to everyone but the hubristic douche that @David_Persuhn so eloquently pointed out
Hehe yeah, I think this is the longest thread so far.
If someone has the time, it would be interesting to update the list with the new resin manufacturers and improved resins for anyone new joining the party. A lot changed since this thread started!
It’s funny now that since I have a few bottles of cheaper resin, I print every custom small knob and whistle I need for private use without having to think about cost. Some resins are not as smooth or perfect as formlabs resin but you don’t always need that for hobby parts.
Just to let you know that we have reformulated all our standard 3Dresyns, including our basic, special and custom RAL and NCS colors, to print directly in open mode with the settings for Formlabs Clear version 2.
We have fine tuned our 3Dresyns to work well with both, the first produced Form 2 printers as well as with last generation ones. We have done the tests with several Form 2 printers bought at different times.
The reformulation has been done because we observed that the optimum dosage of our Fine Tuners FT1 and LB1 varied a bit from one Form 2 printer to another, depending probably on the printer´s manufacturing date and software version. This printability variation with the Form 2 printers and software has been already discussed in the forums.
We have launched several interesting materials, including 3Dresyns with excellent temperature and chemical resistance without brittleness, some ultra safe monomer free resins, engineering functional materials, flexible and elastic materials foldable without breaking, etc,… Our new high deflection temperature resin is rigid and non brittle and resist temperature up to 290C.
Has there been any testing using your high deflection temperature resin for injection molding?
I am thinking of trying it as the HT resin from form labs works good but its a bit brittle.
Just ordered some for testing
One thing that I’ve found for injection molding is to mount the detail in the mold frame along with two part silicone (use mold release to keep it from sticking).
The silicone takes up any small gaps and helps keep the detail from cracking.
So I tried the 3DResyn UHT HTR with black pigment today.
Using the recommended clear V2 profile, I had massive under curing and parts breaking partially during printing. Then I did a 30 minute cure in the form Cure and followed by putting them in the oven at 150 Celsius.
The material became extremely brittle at this temperature. Standard formlabs resin performs much better. I’m not sure what’s going wrong here, but so far it’s no better than the photocentric high tensile resin.
I’m now trying to print with it in closed mode. Will do more printing tests and let you know.
Thanks for the tip. I do use 100% silicone oil to dress the mold and then anneal to re leave stress.
I have had great success with my first test run. 2 part clip mold
using Hylon @550F (287 C)
& got 373 shots off it before parts were unusable. I pushed it hard at the end.
Well that’s sad to hear.
Hopefully I have better luck with it.
That’s actually quite a few shots for a printed mold especially if you were pushing things a little.
I’ve used a fan to give extra mold cooling in the past. Takes forever to cool things off.
It was a good first trial. I was hoping for 10 to 50… Cooling takes up a lot of the time. I found that a 15 sec compressed air blast worked great every other shot to keep temp down but keep in mind I was pushing the temp limit of the Hi-temp resin with this material. Toward the end I was pushing 5 shots in a row with mold release every shot then cool for 30 secs. (That’s where I did a lot of the damage) I have made a air gun with a split off to blast each half of the mold at the same time to cut cooling time in half. My end thought would be to design a EOA (end of arm) to automate the cooling and spraying of the molds but this is a ways down the line. I will be running my 2nd test with much lower temps (polyp) and expect to see even more shots.
Well got my order in today of 3dresyns high deflection temperature resin. Very disappointed that the resin came in like sand and is unusable.
@fantasy2 I’m having an issue with your cartridge module. I sent you an email and PM a week ago, is there a better contact for you?
I’ve been using DigitalForge3d resin. I’ve printed maybe half a liter and it’s great. Not a single issue with prints and the price is awesome. So far I’ve been using it in closed mode by pouring it into an empty cartridge. I have not tried it in open mode, but hopefully when I get @fantasy2’s cartridge module working, I won’t ever have to. I’ll post some pics of my next print batch.
Oh wow, it completely dried up?!
Nice to hear! Very cheap resin indeed. I’ve sent you an email, please check it.
I have just read your post in the Formlabs forum. I am disappointed because you wrote a negative post without giving us any chance nor time to answer your email from yesterday 18/10/2018. We received your email yesterday at 8 pm European time. I am answering now in the morning…
You wrote a complaint in the forum at the same time as you sent us an email, not giving us any chance of explaining how the product has to be handled.
3Dresyn HDT1 is a liquid which tends to solidify naturally after one day or so. This is due to its intrinsic chemical nature. It has a incredibly high Tg. It tends to crystallise naturally before polymerisation. This process is 100% reversible since the material has not polymerised nor become solid and unusable.
It is 100% usable and ready to print. It just needs a gentle warming in the microwave or in a water bath to become liquid again. Once liquid has low viscosity and it is incredibly rigid even at very high temperature.