Delays on Form3 delivery


#27

@larsenstephen can’t argue with any of what you said, but I do think you left something unsaid: what is the comparable printer you’re going to buy instead?

There are many things I love about Formlabs printers, but also many things I actively dislike, not least of which is the ever increasing F3 delay - so if there’s a relevant alternative I should be looking at I want to know…

In the beginning I think FL definitely stood alone for desktop SL around the $3K mark, (F1, F1+, F2?) but is that still the case? I haven’t been paying as much attention as I used to, but I haven’t seen anything relevant mentioned in the forums here yet.

For reference I don’t think the Sprintray Pro qualifies, or going back a bit, the DWS XFab. I am curious about the Peopoly Moai’s, anyone had any experience with those?


#28

@KevinHolmes that is the big question for us today, right now, and a huge concern. I actually love the Form 2 when it’s working and sincerely hope Formlabs can quickly resolve Form 3 problems. Unfortunately, because we have real needs now, we’re presently looking at other manufacturers’ machines, the B9 Core 550, and machines by Moai and Asiga. Most of those are extremely expensive and/or have ridiculously small build platforms, but we’ve been assured they are available for immediate shipment. Presently, availability and reliability are big considerations.

Even if a comparable machine can’t found, the Form 2 and Form 3 are presently not a viable solution simply because I can’t reliably print with the Form 2 and the Form 3 is a ghost. I hope that changes very soon. I would buy a refurb Form 2, if I had any confidence it would stay running.


#29

It really comes down to what it is you want to print. If you are printing larger models that require the build volume of the Form printer, if you need to use the specialty resins like flex castable, dental, etc. then your choices are either limited or expensive.

If, on the other hand you print smaller models, don’t use special resins, then there are quite a few working and inexpensive solurions, like the Anycubic Photon or the Wanhao D7.


#30

You make a well reasoned argument.

The only counter is to ask why you even thought to order the Form 3 when you have nothing but optimistic corporate promises about what it ‘will’ do?

I am in the exact same boat you are. I need to make a living… and I have been doing digital modelling and sending files to print for 25 years now.
I can’t afford a machine from which I can’t know what to expect.

Like you I have had both good and bad Form 2’s- My first machine sucked so hard
I was was considering demanding my money back and going back to service bureaus.
But the reconditioned machine they swapped it out for has run like a top, and if it can last another year or two with only minor maintenance, then it will have met my expectations in regards to service life.

I applaud and appreciate the folks who are willing to walk the cutting edge of unproven technologies… I’m just not one of them.
It sounds to me like you really aren’t, either.


#31

Interesting comments,
However unless things have drastically changed in industry / engineering principles. You BETA test a product to iron out all the technical issues and THEN you sort out how to put it into production.

Quality control systems should eliminate issues with third party made parts arriving that are wrong, the same should be true of parts made in house. The unit is assembled and then FINAL tested as the final stage of a quality controlled process.

Is Formlabs an ISO 9001 accredited company? Does it use a QMS (Quality management system)? Part of the QMS system should define development and production of new products…

Some one mentioned Apple earlier in this thread:

I mentioned Stratasys

image


#32

yeah- I need the volume, and more importantly, I don’t have the time to be babysitting a printer, teasing more resin into the tank as each build progresses…
I waited to buy my own machine for one that would dispense resin automatically, know the heat and exposure settings so I didn’t have to fiddle with them, was smart enough to detect an issue and pause a print- rather than produce a rat’s nest…
And that offered a wide range of materials for a wide range of different prototypes.

Oh- and cost less than 10,000- which left me with One viable option.

I am watering at the mouth over the IDEA of the Form 3L… but I won’t buy one until I have squeezed every bit of usability out of my Form 2 … and have a year or more of user reviews on the Form 3L on which to base a major spending decision.


#33

“Quality control systems should…”

Sorry- but those placards and qualifications are merely saying that your management is good enough that when they see a product in production that’s not working, they know enough to rework the design.

Look, I’ve been in product development for 35 years.
I’ve worked with bureaus running Stratsys printers for 25 years, and their $100K plus machines have as many problems if not more than any Form 2. And they have a long history of NOT supporting very expensive machines that are only 3 or 4 years old, too.

And, no, We don’t call it beta testing, because production runs are sold to the general public. But in today’s world of "pre-selling’, beta testing is exactly what it really is. When you pre-sell, you have forums threads like this full of folks who forked over money, trashing your company reputation for not delivering on time. That is a HUGE pressure to start shipping products that you know still have issues…

But in fact, NO complex product is fully finalized until AFTER it has been released to the public. And No complex product is fully designed until AFTER it has been put into mass production.
Products ARE routinely tweaked and altered while in production because of problems that only mass production conditions reveal.
It could be that human beings can not reliably assemble a part that there is no automated solution for. It could be that a part that TESTED fine, turns out to fail unpredictably earlier than the supplier warranted. It could be because a Part simply can not be made by anyone in the volumes the market requires… ( remember when Apple was promising Sapphire iPhone faces? )

And products being used in the real world reveal other issues that even the most conscientious team of quality control nerds never could have foreseen.
The old saying in product development is that you simply can not make anything foolproof, because fools are so very ingenious.


#34

Ordered our Form 3 in early May 2019, original ship date was August 2nd, never head from anyone when that date passed by. I reached out to sales but my expectations are now very low. We absolutely love our Form 2 and I do not understand why Formlabs would discontinue the Form 2 before the Form 3 is readily available. My experience with this Form 3 order combined with the eternally evolving Fuse 1 delay tells me that as customers we need to expect that Formlabs will seriously over promise and under deliver on any new products.


#35

If the Form3 had been shipping on schedule then it wouldn’t have been as much of an issue that they had discontinued the Form 2.

Also, the Form 2 wasn’t delayed like this so it’s more of a unique situation.
I think it would help though that instead of taking full cost at the time of preorder they should have taken a deposit


#36

My Form 3, ordered April 10th, finally shipped on Sept 3rd.


#37

Crazy about these shipping stories. I didn’t plan on it but a local guy sold me a form 3 for a crazy price after seeing my post to sell one of my form2’s. Such a great deal I couldn’t pass it up. I hope you all get your machines soon.


#38

F3 on the second hand market already! I hope you bought a lottery ticket as well!!:grinning:


#39

I ordered one … no clue when, canceled the order beginning of august and they still shipped me a machine that is here since 13 days instead of a refund). Nice machine, even if I cannot see it since it is in an unopen box.
So they are shipping … not necessarily to the right people


#40

Let us know if it works, I am on a Facebook Formlabs Dental group, and one users Form 3 printer says its a counterfeit and to contact Formlabs support! Crazy!


#41

:rofl:this is hilarious… now if they refunded and sent you the machine I’d say your deal was better than mine and you need to grab a lottery ticket


#42

What the hell!! Maybe this one will too? You never know seeing as tho I didn’t place the original order. I wonder what happens in that situation. :thinking:


#43

So now you know how you got it for a crazy low price! :stuck_out_tongue:


#44

Lol basically … if it doesn’t work. :rofl:… maybe they disable it using the serial ? :man_shrugging:t5:


#45

This was the error that popped up on their machine. Hopefully that is not the case for you!


#46

Yeah I hope not ! That’s crazy ! I wonder what happens in that situation.